Grassroots Radio Colorado, Wayne Williams, September 27, 2013

Station:     KLZ, 560 AM

Show:       Grassroots Radio Colorado

Guests:     Williams, Wayne


Date:         September 27, 2013

Topics:      Scott Gessler, Identification, Voter Access and Modernization Act, Voter Fraud Bill, House Bill HB13-1303, Race for Governor, Elections, Same Day Voter Registration, Executive Director of the Independence Institute Jon Caldara, El Paso County, Puebo County, Voter Turnout, Drivers’ License, Vehicle Registration, Special Recall Elections, Leadership, Judge, Courts, Libertarians, Common Cause, Angela Giron, Colorado College Students, Gypsy Voting, Voter Polling and Service Centers, Early Voting, Voter Suppression, Dorms, Dormitories, Out of State, El Paso County District Attorney Dan May, Attorney General John Suthers

Click Here for Audio


HOST JASON WORLEY:  He just went through a very interesting election, under the new – how do we say it? — very lax election laws, is that a fair–?

CANDIDATE FOR COLORADO SECRETARY OF STATE AND EL PASO COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER WAYNE WILLIAMS:  Very lax is a very good description.  We have a system now that passed on a party line vote that allows people to walk in, claim they live in the district and register immediately.  It allows people to register at the polls and immediately cast a regular ballot without any verification that they actually do live in the district, or that they actually are even a Colorado resident, or a citizen of the U.S.

WORLEY:  And you actually – let’s back up a little bit.  Obviously, we just had a recall election.  In that district includes the dorms of one Colorado College in Colorado Springs

WILLIAMS:  That is correct.

WORLEY:  Now we had heard, and obviously this is from people outside so we don’t know what happened inside the door, that there were students coming up with – driving up with foreign state plates.  I should — Foreign – other plates, out-of-state plates.  Gosh, I’m tired, ladies and gentlemen.  It’s been a long day.  –Out of state plates, saying they were freshmen, which I believe at Colorado College most of those people – most of the freshmen live in the dorms.  And there were rumors out there that they actually used the address of the dorms to register to vote in Colorado Springs.

WILLIAMS:  And under the new law that was passed you can use the dorm as your address.  We had 268 people in the month—in those first 10 days of September while that election was going on, that newly registered or changed their address to El Paso County.  And what we’re doing is sending out letters to those individuals, saying, “Hey, welcome!  And here’s how you get your drivers’ license, as a Colorado drivers’ license.  Here’s how you register your car as a Colorado vehicle.  Here’s how you pay taxes in Colorado.”  And so, it serves a couple purposes.  First, for those that legitimately moved into the area, and people move into Colorado all the time – I moved in 21 years ago, it tells them some very helpful information.  For those who are not legitimate, if they are not actually at the address, that letter bounces back to us.  We can then investigate and work with the District Attorney to prosecute individuals who don’t really live in the district at all. And then, we can also follow up and ensure that those individuals are ultimately doing the things they promised to do when they registered.

WORLEY:  And let me ask – let me get even more specific, here, because this is what is going to be interesting.  The dorms at Colorado College were not open twenty-two days – I think it was, I believe they were open 19 days, if that was the number we had right.  And we had a couple of callers call in and hit us with that.  The dorms were not open until 19 days before the election.  Well, the law says, twenty-two days you have to have a legal residence in the state of Colorado.  Now, if you happen to find people who registered to vote that day, used the dorm as their address, and they said they had been in the state twenty-two days and they came from another state, I’m guessing it wouldn’t be that hard to prove they didn’t.

WILLIAMS:  Well, and that’s one—you know, if you’re a freshman who just showed up, then there’s a legal issue, and we’ll be working with the District Attorney Dan May to prosecute individuals who registered illegally.  If you were a sophomore, you’re coming back, and this is your home, as loosely defined under this new law that was passed, there may not be anything illegal about that. We’ll investigate it.

WORLEY:  Right.  And that makes sense.

WILLIAMS:   And we’ll look at it.  But if you just moved to Colorado, you moved Labor Day weekend to start college and then you registered to vote three days later, there’s an issue and we’ll be working with the District Attorney to prosecute those individuals.

SUBSTITUTE CO-HOST, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF GRASSROOTS RADIO COLORADO, AND LOCAL BUSINESS OWNER SUSAN KOCHEVAR:  And a lot of those students, I understand, they were just rounded up, so they don’t have any idea that they’ve broken the law.

WILLIAMS:  You know, in the past, there had been a polling place at times at Colorado College.  One of the things that the new law did away with is neighborhood polling places.  But we do know that there were groups that paid to rent vehicles so that kids could be driven down, — at least that’s the report that we received.  And again, if they’re legitimate Colorado voters, that’s fine.  But if they’re not, there’s a legal issue and we’ll be working with the DA on that.

WORLEY:  Let me ask you a question.  I mean, obviously Jon Caldara did what he did to prove a point.

WILLIAMS:  Mmm-hmm.

WORLEY:  He never registered to vote.  He did put in a ballot.  How much trouble do you think they are actually going to try – how far do you think the Democrats will try and push this?

WILLIAMS:  Well, Jon did register to vote in El Paso County.

WORLEY:  Right.  But he didn’t register – he didn’t not vote for anyone.

WILLIAMS:  He did not vote for anyone.  But if the registration was false, that’s a crime, in and of itself.   Now, my understanding is that Jon did change his drivers’ license address, that Jon did sign a lease for a bedroom apartment –

WORLEY:  Yeah. It was a week-to-week lease, yeah.

WILLIAMS:  – in Mark Barker’s house, a former state Rep.  And the Attorney General is investigating that case to see whether there was anything inappropriate.  But if that was his legitimate intent, if he – under this new law, if that’s the place that he now resides at, he may not have broken the law.

WORLEY:  And then [inaudible] the word “intent”.  You can’t – I’m sorry, but intent goes to right here [presumably indicating at his head].  Intent goes inside your head!


WILLIAMS:  Well, and it’s a ridiculous bill, and it’s the reason that Secretary of State Scott Gessler and I, Wayne Williams, the El Paso County Clerk and Recorder  both went up to Denver  and the legislature and testified in both the Senate and the House, to say, “This is a huge problem!  You should not pass this bill.  You have not run it through.”  And then we had all the issues where the judge said it was fatally flawed because it didn’t actually match the Colorado constitution.  And that’s what happens when you run through a partisan bill, as a late bill, without process, without wanting to actually listen to the people.

KOCHEVAR:  And the Libertarian party found a loophole and sued, so that people had to come to the poll instead of have a mail-in ballot.  How hard would that have been to track with a mail-in ballot?

WORLEY:  By the way, the Republican party really should thank the Libertarian party right now, because they really did do you a favor, especially because they – and I hate to say this, they didn’t have their stuff enough together to get a Libertarian on the ballot.


WORLEY:  That could have been more interesting.  But hey, the Libertarians helped the Republicans out.  It’s about time you actually thanked them!  Just – just a thing.  So, let’s – you know, we’re the only ones who are going to have this announcement.  We’re the only ones who are going to have this announcement

KOCHEVAR:  That’s right.

WORLEY:  We have a big announcement.  We are breaking it right now, the last segment of Grassroots Radio Colorado.  Scott Gessler has announced that he is going to run for governor of the state of Colorado.

WILLIAMS:  He has.

WORLEY:  There’s a big empty spot in one of the most important positions in the state:

KOCHEVAR:  Mmm-hmm.

WORLEY:  Secretary of State.  So, do we know anybody who might be sitting across from us at this table who might be running?

WILLIAMS:  [laughs]

KOCHEVAR:  I think so.

WILLIAMS:  On October 1st, I’ll be filing paperwork to run for Secretary of State.  I think it’s absolutely critical that we have an individual who supports the right to vote and protecting that for those who legitimately have that ability, and so that those votes are not diluted by individuals who are voting illegally.  We want to make sure that everyone who has the right to vote has that opportunity to do so.  And we did that in El Paso County.    We had no lines.  We had 49 hours of polling places open.  We had every single voter within seven minutes of one of the new voter service and polling centers.  And so, I believe very strongly in protecting that right to vote for all legitimate Coloradoans.

WORLEY:  But you suppressed the vote.  Sorry! Sarcasm off!  I don’t want people to think I’m – ColoradoPols will write down, “he says you’re suppressing the vote.”  That was what they did!  They said—that was the attack, that you were suppressing the vote.

WILLIAMS:  You know, it’s an interesting attack, because first, the few people who said that never contacted our office, and I don’t even think are actually from Colorado Springs, so they never actually paid attention to anything.  But we had,– as I said, every single voter was within seven minutes of a polling place.  And there were no lines, and so everyone could walk up and vote.  It was a great process. We even got thanked from — by Common Cause, thanking us for working to make voting a great experience for the citizens of El Paso County.   And so, I believe strongly that, you know, everyone who is legally entitled to do so should have that ability to vote.  But part of the  role of anyone in charge of the elections is to ensure that your legitimate vote isn’t diluted by someone who doesn’t have the legal ability to vote.

KOCHEVAR:  Well, and – if I understand this correctly, the reason Angela Giron said that the vote was suppressed was because there were no mail-in ballots. Is that—so–?

WORLEY:  That was her excuse.

KOCHEVAR:  You could actually label that – lay that on the Libertarians, then.

WILLIAMS:  Well, actually, it’s not the Libertarians.  It’s the Colorado constitution–

KOCHEVAR:  Right.  Yeah.

WORLEY:  Yeah.

WILLIAMS:  –that says you can turn in a petition to run up to fifteen days before an election.  So they did that, actually, in El Paso County.  It wasn’t until the Tuesday after Labor Day that their deadline for the protest of the decision that she did not make the ballot ended.  And so, we then knew Wednesday morning. And Thursday morning we opened the polls.  So we did that as quickly as it was possible to do.  And you simply can’t mail out ballots to people if you have a five day turn around for an election.  You can’t mail them out.  You can’t get them back.  And that would have been a very grave disservice to the citizens, to say, “Hey, we mailed you a ballot.  You got it after the election is over.  Too bad!”  And so, we worked very hard to make it so that everyone could easily get into a place to vote, in a very good process.  You know, — and it is interesting Giron said that.  And of course, the commentator caught her on that.

WORLEY:  Oh, [she] just called her out!

WILLIAMS:  And said, “Wait a second!”  You’ve got – traditionally, you’ve got twelve hours to vote.  At most places around the country, you have 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. on Election Day.  We had 49 hours in El Paso County.  Pueblo actually knew their ballot a little ahead of time, because no Libertarian turned in a petition, so they had a few more—

WORLEY:  They had a whole week of early ballot—of early [inaudible].

WILLIAMS:  Yeah.  So, there was no suppression, whatsoever.  Anyone could walk in, have that opportunity to vote and not even a line!  So, we had people coming in, — you could park your car, get in, vote, and get back to your car within less than fifteen minutes.  And that’s a pretty easy process.  And so, anytime someone loses, there is always a sour grapes approach.  Blame someone else.  Don’t  blame the fact that you wouldn’t listen to the people, that you wouldn’t even let sheriffs testify when they came up and said, “I’m here to tell you about why this is a bad bill for public safety.”  And just cut that off, and wouldn’t even listen to the people.  And I think anytime you do that, the people have the right to be outraged to say, “We need to replace the leadership.”

WORLEY:  Ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here first.  Wayne Williams, El Paso County Clerk and Recorder, the gentleman who just ran a very good election down in El Paso County, —

WILLIAMS:  Thank you.

WORLEY:  –a tough recall election, a tough special election – got it done.  Now he is running for Secretary of State here in Colorado to replace Scott Gessler, who is running for governor.  Congratulations and good luck, sir!

WILLIAMS:  Thank you very much!  Thanks for having me on again.

WORLEY:  And thanks for being with us.

KOCHEVAR:  Thank you.

WORLEY:  We definitely want to hear about the prosecutions, too.

WILLIAMS:  Well, as soon as we know more, we will pass it on.

WORLEY:  That would be great!

KOCHEVAR:  Thank you very much!