Station:    KVOR, 740 am

Show:       Jeff Crank Show

Guests:    Ganahl, Heidi

Link:        https://soundcloud.com/user-213438850/jeff-crank-9-7-19

Date:       September 7, 2019

Topics:     Free to Be, Viewpoint Diversity, Colorado University, First Amendment, Free Speech, Speakers, Feisty Debate, Kennedy vs. Epstein, The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, Climate Change, Camp Bow Wow, Barbecue, Joshua Dunn,  No on Prop CC Campaign, Ref C, Faster Fees, Hospital Provider Fee, Revenue, Education, Higher Ed, Teacher Pay, Roads and Transportation Infrastructure, Bruce Benson, Mark Kennedy, Taxpayer Bill of Rights (TABOR), Refunds, Mark Hillman, The Ref C Shuffle, Prioritizing Spending, Jonathan Haidt,

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GUEST HOST LAURA CARNO [00:00:03] So, after the break we’re going to have Heidi Ganahl, who is a CU regent, kind of connected to you, Josh Dunn.

GUEST HOST AND UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO AT COLORADO SPRINGS PROFESSOR, JOSHUA DUNN [00:00:11] Yeah, that’s right. She’s one of our great regents, in our system. She does a wonderful job with that. But she’s of course involved in other political issues around the state, including ‘No on [Proposition] CC.’ But we’ve worked together on on some projects and some speakers, and she’s done a wonderful job funding some initiatives here in the CU system to help students bring people to campus that will expose campuses to a broader range of opinions, too.

CARNO [00:00:36] Yeah, she’s a great free speech advocate. So, when we come back, Heidi Ganahl.

CARNO [00:01:00] […] So, it’s the Jeff Crank Show. But it is not Jeff Crank. He is on vacation. This is Laura Cano and Josh Dunn from UCCS, filling in for the vacationing Jeff Crank, here on 740 KVOR. [We are] happy to be here. You know, before the break we were talking about Prop CC that will be on your ballot, and I mentioned I am part of the ‘No on CC’ campaign. Another person, my good friend, Heidi Ganahl, CU regent, is one of the co-chairs of the ‘No on CC’ campaign.  And Heidi, thanks for coming on the show.

COLORADO UNIVERSITY REGENT, HEIDI GANAHL [00:01:34] Thanks for having me, Laura. [I] hope you are having a great day today.

CARNO [00:01:36] Absolutely, yes! I am here with Professor [Dunn] from UCCS, who you know very well, as well.

GANAHL [00:01:41] Yes, Josh is one of my favorites. Hi, Josh!

DUNN [00:01:44] Hey, Laura! — oh! [correcting himselt] ‘Laura’ — [I meant] Heidi. How are you doing?

GANAHL [00:01:48] It’s okay. We answer to everything. Laura and I are interchangeable in [unintelligible] cases.

CARNO [00:01:52] Sure. Absolutely. So, let’s talk about Prop CC, and there are going to be people who say this is going to free up more money, or create more money in this state, for higher ed[ucation].  And as a CU regent, higher ed is very important to you. But you’re looking at this differently. You’re — talk about why even though you’re a CU regent, you think it’s really important for us to take a look at any situations that are going to weaken TABOR, and in this case, keep the — allow the government to keep refunds forever. Why was this important to you, Heidi?

GANAHL [00:02:32] Well, it’s important to me because even though I absolutely think higher ed needs more funding and that it’s a great investment of our dollars — our taxpayer dollars, because it helps develop our workforce and create the labor of the future, I believe that — at this point — the state budget is pretty big. It’s growing over a billion dollars a year. It’s over $32.5 billion right now, up from $19 billion just 10 years ago. And population is up 15% in the last decade, but the state budget is up 71%. So, in my in my belief, state government has enough money right now. They just need to prioritize better, which includes investing and building the workforce of the future at CU and colleges. But I just don’t think this is the right answer.

CARNO [00:03:19] Yeah, and give us those numbers again. State population is up 15%, but the state budget is up — what did you say? — 71?

GANAHL [00:03:28] Yes, the population is up 15% in the last decade, and the state budget is up 71%.

CARNO [00:03:33] Yeah, so think about that, folks.  When you start hearing ads closer to November — closer to October, really, with our all-mail in ballots — when you hear ads talking about the state is starving and we don’t have enough money, not just for higher ed but roads. They’ll talk about roads. They’ll talk about schools. You need to remember what Heidi just said: 15% increase in population, 71% increase in the state budget.  Am I getting all that right?

GANAHL [00:04:04] Yeah, Laura, and the other thing that’s interesting to note is that we are the second in percentage increase in state spending since the recession, nationwide. So, we are spending a lot of money. I just believe we have to prioritize better. And part of the problem is that Prop C[C] is not a long term solution. The money can’t be used for bonding for roads, or increasing teacher pay with this money because it’s not predictable. And this is an interesting note, too. Despite a 20% increase in education spending since 1990 — so they’ve been increasing spending — teacher pay is down 20% when you adjust it for inflation. So, something is wrong, here.

DUNN [00:04:44] Yeah, so, Heidi, if you had to guess — or maybe you’ve looked closely at the budget — we’ve seen these significant increases in spending, where is this money going? I mean, how or how are they prioritizing it?

GANAHL [00:04:56] Well, that’s a good question. It’s a lot of shuffling money around. I think, Mark Hillman called it ‘The Ref C Shuffle’ [which] was a good way to put it back in the days when Ref C came out, and it’s still affecting our budget. Like, as an example with Ref C, we brought in $2 billion each year in additional revenue.  Faster fees have brought in $250 million each year.  And the hospital provider fee brings in $600 million dollars in additional funding. That’s almost $3 billion dollars a year. But our roads are worse than ever. Higher ed funding is one of the worst in the nation. And our nation’s —  or our teachers are still not getting paid what they should. So again, I think this is not a revenue problem. It’s a spending problem. And I would suggest there’s lots of different things they’re spending money on, but probably not getting the best return on investment for our taxpayer dollars, as an example with the education spending which I think you’ve seen various stats around the administration bloat in education. But it’s not getting to the classroom.

DUNN [00:05:55] Yeah, so, I would actually — you know, maybe some other agencies in our state system could look at the CU system and some of the things that President Benson did while he was president. It seemed like he did a pretty good job of economizing, particularly as state funding declined

GANAHL [00:06:12] Yeah, and President Benson did a great job. And I think you’ll see that with President Kennedy, as well. CU contributes over $12 billion dollars to the Colorado economy each year. We’ve launched five Nobel laureates, fostered over 200 startups. We have leading global experts in all different areas, and we’ve granted over 16,000 degrees. We’re a state university and we provide all of this value for an investment of a few hundred million dollars by the state last year on an almost $5 billion budget. So, as a business person, I’d say that’s a pretty darn good return on investment. And I wish the legislature and the governor would realize that, too.

CARNO [00:06:50] Yeah, and speaking of you being a business person, folks may not know that you actually founded Camp Bow Wow, sort of the first innovation in doggie day care. And so, you had a great idea.  You — just like a lot of folks coming out of our university system — you had a great idea, you figured out how to implement it. And, yeah, it’s the American Dream, right? But Camp Bow Wow is such a great –such a great company that you founded and grew all over the country.

GANAHL [00:07:20] Thanks, Laura. Yeah, so, it was quite an experience.  And I feel so blessed to have lived the American Dream.  And that’s why I work so hard to preserve it for future generations. I think it’s a pivotal time in our history. We have more and more kids thinking that socialism is the right answer and they’re wanting bigger and more intrusive government control, and that is not what America is all about. And it’s something I’m very passionate about, and why I think TABOR is important, too, because it really does keep government spending in check, and helps keep the decision making in the hands of the voters, not in the politicians’.

DUNN [00:07:56] Yeah, so, I also have to mention — as someone who is a great fan of barbecue — your husband also has — is an entrepreneur, as well, right? He has a barbecue restaurant, correct?

GANAHL [00:08:10] Yes, he has three restaurants, now. He has one up in Westminster, one by Park Meadows, and he just opened at Broncos stadium, near Gate 10.

DUNN [00:08:17] Oh, wow! That’s incredible! So, I wanted you to say a little bit, too, about some of the things that you’re promoting in the CU system, particularly the Free to Be program that you’ve really been behind and have started over the past year or two in the system.

GANAHL [00:08:34] Well, I think, Josh, you and I share a passion for preserving free speech and trying to get more intellectual diversity in higher ed. And that’s what Free to Be is all about. It’s a student club, but we also have a national effort to collect best practices around preserving free speech on college campuses. So, we’ve created a blueprint for how to do that for trustees and administrators in higher ed. But we’re having a very fun debate this fall — I can finally announce it, [now that] we’ve got everything firmed up — at CU-Boulder.  It’s between Alex Epstein, who wrote The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, and Bobby Kennedy, Jr. about the role that man plays — or fossil fuels play — in climate change. And we’re going to have a lot of fun with that. It’s on October 21, so you’ll be seeing some posts about that coming up.

DUNN [00:09:20] All that is fantastic! I knew you were working on that. I’m glad you were finally able to get both of them together.

GANAHL [00:09:26] [laughing] Yeah, it’s a bit complicated, trying to get everybody — these people are really busy and they’re fun and interesting — and getting them pinned down on dates. But you know, I think it’s so important — in the famous words of Bruce Benson, or President Benson — we have to teach our students how to think, not what to think. And so, debate has kind of gone by the wayside over the years. We don’t have a robust debate club at C.U., which is really, you know, bumming me out. We need that conversation going on. So, that’s what Free to Be is all about. And you’ve been a great supporter. I thank you, Josh, for that.

DUNN [00:09:58] Oh, well, thank you. And I have to mention, there’s going to be another event the week before — both at UCCS and Boulder — Jonathan Haidt will be speaking on some of these same issues, about the importance of free speech and viewpoint diversity on campus. He’s going to be in Boulder on October 15th.

GANAHL [00:10:13] Oh, that’s fantastic!

DUNN [00:10:13] Yes, and then he’ll be here at UCCS on October 16. So anyone that’s interested here in Colorado Springs, just go to see CSGI-dot-co and click on events, and you can find out all the information. You do have to have a ticket, but it’s free. [You] just have to register to get a ticket.

GANAHL [00:10:31] Well, I think I think this is a great effort to focus on right now. And we’ve got to keep the conversation alive on both sides of the issues, and teach our students that there’s more than one side of the story.

CARNO [00:10:43] Yeah, and Heidi, I remember during your campaign when you were running for CU regent, I heard you use the word ‘feisty’ a lot, that we should — on our college campuses — we should have feisty debate about important topics, I think is how you said that. And I agree with you! We can’t turn college graduates out of college into the real world where they haven’t heard another opinion.

GANAHL [00:11:09] I agree. And I think that’s why we’re seeing a lot of the issues we are, where it’s, you know, “My way or hit the highway, and you’re not okay if you don’t agree with me.”  It’s okay to have differing opinions. That’s how you get the best solutions to the biggest problems in society, is looking at — you know, turning over every rock, hearing every opinion, and listening with great intent to your opposition. And, you know, the right solution is going to be somewhere in the middle. It’s not going to be on either end.

CARNO [00:11:37] Sure.  And so, thanks for all you do as a CU regent and fighting for free speech and — like you call it — the feisty debate on our university campuses. And folks can go to Vote-no-on-CC-dot-com to get more information about why CC would be not just bad in the short run, but really bad for Colorado in the long run. So, we’ll be back right after this break. Heidi, thank you so much for joining us.

GANAHL [00:12:09] Oh, thanks for having me.  Have a great day!

CARNO [00:12:10] Yeah, you too!