Station:   KHOW, 630AM

Show:      Mandy Connell Show

Guests:    Brown

Link:        http://www.iheart.com/show/139-Mandy-Connell/

Date:       April 16, 2015

Topics:     Dave Kopel, Jon Caldara, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, RMGO, High Capacity Magazine Ban, Repeal of the Magazine Ban, Compromise, Independence Institute, Joe Salazar, Mary Hodge, Democrats, 30 round, 15 round, National Rifle Association (NRA), House District 31,

Click here for the Audio of Dudley Brown Interview

Click here for Audio of the Entire Conversation on the Magazine Ban Repeal Compromise

 

[The following represents notes taken during this broadcasted interview.  All portions, except where identified as transcribed sections, are paraphrased from the questions and responses between the host and the guest.]

HOST MANDY CONNELL: 

• RMGO head, and opposed to the Mag Ban adjustment from 15 to 30 rounds

ROCKY MOUNTAIN GUN OWNERS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND LOBBYIST, DUDLEY BROWN:

• Heard you were talking about what we were doing
• Decided to call in

CONNELL:

• I don’t necessary have an opinion about your organization…. I’m looking at this situation now, where we have the potential to take that magazine –

BROWN:

• No
• No we didn’t have that potiential, Mandy!  That’s the point
• This is year 22 for me lobbying guns
• I have a fair amount of knowledge of how legislature works
• Although, I will confess, I’m not the one doing it in the CO leg personally right now
  • My duties are largely on national basis right now
• But let me be clear:  we ask very clear questions of candidates when they run for office
  • We think gunowners need to know and hear directly what politicians are going to do when they are elected
  • And that’s — we think they’re owed that by politicians

CONNELL:

• Sure!

BROWN:

• Some in – especially, some of the surrender monkeys who are whining right now about this issue, and telling us to compromise, are always very upset that I’ve backed – that we ask candidates specific questions
• And we don’t trust people who won’t answer us
• They might lie to us, but if they won’t answer us, [inaudible]
• And one of the questions we ask is, “will you vote against bans on magazine capacity?”
• If you vote against it
• And of course, after the 2013 session, we also asked the question, “Will you vote for repeal bills.”
• Well, so many of the – a large majority of the  Republican caucus, in both the House and the Senate, who are now sitting legislators have answered that survey and said, “I will vote against every limitation of magazines, and I will vote for repeals.”  Okay?
• Um, and those people, in all consciousness, can’t vote to accept a 31 round ban
• It’s an arbitrary number.  We all know it is.
• In fact, those are the arguments we made when we opposed it in the first place

CONNELL:

• So, why take out Dave Kopel?  Why go after him?

BROWN:

• Well, I don’t – look, I don’t want to go into personalities on a public format.
• Um, Dave Kopel is a wonderful writer.
• On strategy, he’s horrid!
• Dave Kopel is actually a Democrat
• He has always advocated for compromise at every single turn.
• Every time we’ve ever had a gun bill in Colorado, he’s always advocated for compromise
• And in fact, Dave Kopel is the one who fixed the Democrats mag ban so it did not include shotguns
  • He showed Senator Mary Hodge how to do it, mechanically
  • Probably being the one who enabled it to pass
  • Now, I have no qualms about being honest.
  • But in politics, I don’t want it to be about personality
  • I want it to be about principle and strategy
• But, in all honesty, we simply don’t agree with Dave Kopel and never have
• Um, so – and for that matter, at the Independence Institute, none of whom got these legislators into office.
  • It’s our organization and our PAC that spent the money to elect the legislature and take the Senate from the Democrats
  • We were the biggest funders of Republican candidates in the last election
  • Far bigger than the NRA
  • And let me be clear, I don’t know if this is – you could ask them, but my understanding is even the NRA opposes this compromise
  • Now, if the NRA opposes a compromise because it’s too squishy on the gun issue, that pretty much means that it’s as far left as it can be because the NRA usually buys into every compromise
  • Um, and in this case, my understanding is that they opposed it, too,.
  • Look there aren’t the votes to pass a 31 round ban –the repeal of the 30 ban, to make it 31.
  • Um,

CONNELL:

• Uh, but there aren’t the votes for repeal, unless the Republicans take the House and the Governor’s mansion, neither of which are assured

BROWN:

• That’s right
• There are not the votes for the repeal, and there are not – for the full repeal. And there are not the votes to pass a 31 round ban, either.
• Because the principled conservatives will not vote for it
• And left wing Democrats won’t vote for that either, because they don’t want to remove the ban on 30 round magazines.
• Now, to those people who say, “Wait a minute!  I want to be able to buy my 30 round magazine!”  I say, “Shut your pie hole and go buy one!”
• There are many retailers who sell them right now.  They ignore the law, and God Bless them for doing so.
• And in many cases, your District Attorney and your sheriff won’t be involved in any cases against you, anyway
• Now, a little different for the city of Denver, clearly, but most sheriffs won’t be involved in filing charges and many of the D.A.s won’t do it, either
• So, so in practicality, you can own a 30 round magazine in Colorado.
• I’m not advocating for those — for that ban being in effect.  I’m saying, for those people who just want a practical way to buy a 30 round magazine in Colorado, I say, “Go buy one!”

CONNELL:

• So, basically, you’re just saying, “Just go break the law.”  I mean, I want to be clear about what you’re saying.  You’re saying, “Go break the law.”

BROWN:

• Well, first of all, I’m saying the law is not [inaudible] anyway.

CONNELL:

• Well, okay, but see, that’s not the point, here.  What you’re saying is, “Go break the law.” It doesn’t matter if the law is unconstitutional for the purpose of this conversation.  You’re saying, “Go break the law.”

BROWN:

• I’m saying – I’m saying, if there are–
• I’m saying, “Do what you want.”
• But, the fact is, the ban, really — it’s like jaywalking.
• Um, there really is no ban, right now.
• Um, it’s largely a ban on some of the businesses who manufacture and didn’t want to be here, anyway
• But in terms of political strategy, Mandy, this is such an incredibly silly idea
• Understand, that this idea was floated by one person: Joe “Rape Whistle” Salazar.  And that’s who Jon Caldara and Dave Kopel are taking their lead from.
• Now, what’s strange –.

CONNELL:

• Now, wait a minute, Dudley, here’s the thing.  You just said earlier you don’t want to make this about personalities,  but the Facebook post by Rocky Mountain Gun Owners says, “Does Bloomberg have a sleeper cell in Colorado?  All of a sudden, Dave Kopel is fighting as hard as he can to save the magazine ban.  Maybe it’s because he’s a lifelong registered Democrat and a Ralph Nader voter.”   So, that hardly sounds like you’re arguing the issue.  It sounds like a personal attack.

BROWN:

• Well, that actually – the reason – that was a response, so –.
• We didn’t start this, um –.

CONNELL:

• “We didn’t start it” is not a mature response.

BROWN:

• We didn’t start the battle, Mandy! But I can guarantee you, we’re ending it.
• Um, look—if you believe – if you agree with the people who say, “Compromise at every turn.”

CONNELL:

• Uh, now see, that is an assertion that is not also accurate.  The assertion from my perspective is, if you can get the camel under the nose of the tent on this issue, and you say, “Look, we repealed this back to 30 and nothing bad happened!” – which is my expectation, so, as a legally—you know, a law-abiding citizen who owns a firearm and defends the rights of people who own a firearm, I think there are strategic ways to go about something that would make it more palatable for people who otherwise would be opposed to it at this juncture

BROWN:

• Well, look at it this way.  Understand that, from our position, no one called us and said, “Hey, I got an idea. Let’s talk about this strategy.” You know, Jon Caldara didn’t call our office and say, “Hey, I want to talk about this strategy.” Um, and in fact, I don’t know who else he may have called, but he didn’t call us and say, “We want to have this discussion.”
• No legislator who’s on our side came to us
• Joe Salazar came to us.  And he’s just doing it to save his hide. He barely won re-election this year against a weak and under—non-funded—candidate. Uh, he’s toast next time, if he gets a decent candidate.  And we’ll fund — we’ll spend maximum amounts of money against him.
• And, uh, however, um, largely that’s where Dave and — Dave Kopel and Jon Caldara are taking their cues, is directly from Joe Salazar.
• Even the NRA is not doing that.  So, —

CONNELL:

• You know, Dudley, — and I’m out of time, and I’ll let you – I’ll – Actually, I’m over.  I’ve got to take a break.  But, one thing I will say about Jon Caldara is he is no man’s puppet.  Jon Caldara is as independent a thinker as I have ever met in my life.  Sometimes he and I disagree on things, but I never question where he is – quote, taking his lead.  So, you are saying you don’t want to make this personal, and yet you keep making personal attacks.  I just want to point that out.

BROWN:

• That’s because, frankly, we were ambushed in a dark alley by Joe Salazar, Jon Caldara, and Dave Kopel
• And our response to an ambush of the innocent is largely, to fight.
• And so, we’re going to expose what they’ve done in the past, and uh, honestly, if they get  upset with that, we don’t care
• From our perspective, this is a principled strategy.  Yesterday morning, if you followed what happened in the House, we forced a recorded vote on the entire House floor on the full mag ban repeal, Senate Bill 175.  Kim Ransom and Justin Everett and a number of others forced the recorded vote
• And they had the chance – the Democrats had the chance to break ranks and vote with us.  And they didn’t, of course.
• And five Republicans voted wrong.  And all five of those Republicans are suspect, and in danger in the next primary.
• And, so –

CONNELL:

• Well, Dudley, I’m sorry, I have to take a break.  I appreciate your phone call.  I just think, in this situation, you’re talking a little bit out of the both sides of your mouth and you’re justifying it by “they hit us first.”  And I just spent an hour talking about the Jefferson County Teachers – or Education Association, and in a lot of ways you’re doing the same they’re doing.  And that is, instead of arguing the issues–.

BROWN:

• We’re not fighting – We’re going to fight when somebody drops the gloves at center ice, so–.

CONNELL:

• I understand it, and I appreciate the phone call.  [hangs up with Mr. Brown]  I now have an opinion about Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.  We’ll take some more phone calls. Nathan wants to weigh in on bully tactics, after this, on Talk Radio, 630 KNOW