Station:    KDMT, 1690 am

Show:       Business for Breakfast

Guests:    Staiert, Suzanne

Link:        https://omny.fm/shows/business-for-breakfast/b4b-aug-22-hr-3

Date:       August 22, 2019

Topics:           Sen. Jack Tate, Littleton, Arapahoe High School, School Choice, Charter Schools, Senate District 27, Former Deputy Secretary of  State, Scott Gessler, Wayne Williams, Arapahoe County License Plate Clerk, Joan Lopez, Partisanship, Working Groups, Election Law, Ominbus Election reform Bill, Jena Griswold, Sexual Harrasment, #MeToo, Municipal Court Judge, Non-disclosure Agreegment, Mediation, Colorado Open Records Act (CORA), Polly Lawrence Bill, Corruption in the Judiciary, Rulemaking, Electoral College, 10^th Circuit Courts, Teacher Pay, Planned Parenthood

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HOST JIMMY SENGENBERGER [00:00:00] All right, this morning, let’s wrap up the show by going a little more localized, right here into Colorado. You know, a number of times on this show, going back I think actually to day one of Business for Breakfast we’ve had on State Senator Jack Tate, who’s been representing the last few years Senate District 27. He has decided not to run for re-election. But a candidate who is vying for that position on the Republican side s Suzanne Staiert, who is the former Deputy Secretary of State. And I’m pleased to welcome her, here in studio, to Business for Breakfast. Suzanne, good morning!

GOP CANDIDATE FOR COLORADO SENATE DISTRICT 27 & FORMER COLORADO DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE, SUZANNE STAIERT [00:00:35] Good morning. Thanks for having me.

SENGENBERGER [00:00:36] [It is] great to have you here. So, we’ll talk about why you’re running, get into a little bit of issues, and some more specifics of your background in a little bit. But first, I just want to ask you to tell us where Senate District 27 is — what it covers, as far as the area — and then also just tell us kind of your basic professional background.

STAIERT [00:00:53] So, Senate District 27 starts at Broadway on the west side, comes all the way –covers all of Centennial, out into unincorporated Arapahoe County, almost out to 470, and then it dips a little bit into Greenwood Village there on the east side.

SENGENBERGER [00:01:11] [unintelligible] And then, what’s your professional background?

STAIERT [00:01:13] So, I’m an attorney. I got a degree from the University Wyoming when I went to undergrad. And then I came down here to go to law school, [at the] University of Denver.  And I’ve worked for local government, actually most of my career. I worked for Aurora — the city — for about 13 years, and then I went over to Arapahoe County for a year. I worked for the city of Denver. I was a Littleton City Attorney for three years before I then took an appointment with Scott Gessler at the Secretary of State’s office.

SENGENBERGER [00:01:41] And you were with both Gessler, and then former Secretary of State Wayne Williams kept you along for his tenure as Secretary of State and then left after Jena Griswold took her position as Secretary of State.

STAIERT [00:01:53] The day before. [laughs]

SENGENBERGER [00:01:55] The day before — yeah, yeah, right!  Just before that, would be the case. So, at that point in time, of course the most distinguishing feature for you is that you and I and a couple of others were blocked on Twitter by our Arapahoe County Clerk and Recorder license plate tag clerk, Joan Lopez.

STAIERT [00:02:11] Yes, we were, back during the Bomb Cyclone.

SENGENBERGER [00:02:14] It was the craziest thing! And I came on this show, and I talked about it that morning. I did a whole — this segment was devoted to to talking about that. I mean, it was not just that; a regular constituent was also blocked, and then Lisa Flannigan Crane, who is her predecessor — Matt Crane, the former Clerk and Recorder of Arapahoe County, his wife. It was just the strangest thing. And I came on here blasted, and then by the end of the day, we were unblocked.

STAIERT [00:02:41] Yes, we were, which was almost unfortunate because I had the complaint ready to go.

SENGENBERGER [00:02:45] Yeah! Although I think there was one that was filed after the blocking had been done away with, where they let him back in to social media. So, it may not be too late if we want to do something. But, that’s neither here nor there. I think you’re on to something bigger and better, as far as running for Senate District 27. But I want to remind listeners of that, and how crazy that was, to be sure. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about the experience at the Secretary of State’s office, and what that experience was like for you, especially from an understanding — even more deeply — of the importance of elections and the different roles that the Secretary of State does, and the importance of making sure we have good government.

STAIERT [00:03:27] Yeah, good government is really one of the reasons that I’m running. We see — from the Arapahoe County Clerk selection, the Secretary of State’s selection — people getting into office who really don’t have any understanding of what the office does. They don’t understand how government works. They don’t understand how to make it work. And a lot of times they don’t care. And that’s really one of the reasons that I’m running, is because I have this experience and I understand — you know, I think I can be effective from day one.

SENGENBERGER [00:03:58] Yeah, and in terms of good government, you’re right to bring up both the current Secretary of State, and the Clerk in Arapahoe, and there are other examples, surely. But in terms of qualifications, in terms of knowing what you’re doing and knowing even the basics of the job and not simply looking at it from a partisan angle, I mean, one of the things that was striking — we talked about on this program — was — and you identified this, you’re the one who found it — that the Secretary of State, Jena Griswold, had actually gone to Planned Parenthood and gotten them to review a press release before she sent it out, dealing with the notion of not having the Secretary of State employees go to Alabama for training.

STAIERT [00:04:34] Right. I mean, this is the kind of thing that we’re getting right now, is an office that rather than doing good policy and doing good work, they’re just farming it out to partisan interests. Yesterday morning, I got a call from a reporter because the presidential elector case had come out, and this reporter was frustrated that he couldn’t get a quote out of the Secretary of State’s office. And I told him, jokingly, “Well it’s not their fault! They don’t know anything! They can’t give you a quote!”.

SENGENBERGER [00:04:58] But it’s true.

STAIERT [00:05:00] [laughing].

SENGENBERGER [00:05:00] [laughing] It’s true, though, at the same time, you know? There are both to it. And that’s a whole other story. I would love to go down the rabbit hole of that case, maybe another time, or maybe talk to the former Secretary of State Wayne Williams about it, too. But when it comes to partisanship right now, I mean, one of the things that clearly is very frustrating to a lot of Americans, a lot of Coloradans, surely people in Senate District 27, is how partisan things have gotten, to the point where you can hardly have discussions with one another.

STAIERT [00:05:29] Right. And you know, when we were at the Secretary of State’s office when Wayne Williams was there, there was a split legislature. We had a Republican Senate and a Democratic House, and we ran bills. And we were very successful. And last year — or the year before I left — we ran four bills through the House and the Senate, and in the Senate we had zero ‘no’ votes, and that was Republicans and Democrats. And that’s because we did the work ahead of time. We didn’t just run things through without talking to people. And that’s what we’re seeing right now at the legislature, we’re seeing them just, you know, as fast as they can go, just move bills through. And they don’t care whether there’s agreement across the board or not.

SENGENBERGER [00:06:07] And do I understand correctly, or recall correctly, that you were very involved in the legislative activities of the Secretary of State’s office?

STAIERT [00:06:14] I was. I generally testified on the bills. I mean, a lot of election bills are very technical in nature and so we would go over, we would testify about those bills, we would do the work on the front end to do working groups.  And when we did working groups, they were actually working group — people at the table who might not agree with us. And we’re not seeing that anymore, either. We’re seeing people call things ‘working groups’ and really they’re just political strategy meetings. That’s not a good way to govern.

SENGENBERGER [00:06:42] No, it certainly is not! And I wanted to make that point, because it shows you do have legislative experience in a way, in terms of knowing how it works, and interacting, and knowing what do what is necessary in order to get a bill through with 0 ‘no’ votes in the state senate. Again, we’re talking with Suzanne Staiert, who is a Republican candidate for Senate District 27, which is in essence — well, southeast Arapahoe County, Centennial, unincorporated Arapahoe County. So, let’s talk a little bit about another aspect of your professional background. I mean, we’ve heard a lot, of late — with good reason and with a lot of attention brought to it — over the #MeToo movement.  #MeToo has been a big deal, and rightly so, because now you have people who are calling real attention to something that should have been called for for many years. But before you were working at the Secretary of State’s office — and remember, that was when Scott Gessler was still Secretary of State, or was Secretary of State when you became Deputy Secretary of State — you were working for the city of Littleton. And you fought back, and tried to push and get changes done in Littleton on that exact type of issue. Tell us what you did.

STAIERT [00:07:52] So, about three years into my term in Littleton, they hired a new municipal court judge.  And that judge sexually harassed me. And, you know, when I started to look into his background, I found out that he had had three other complaints at his prior employer. That employer just sort of let him resign and passed him on. I mean, that can’t keep happening. And that’s really why — I think — the #MeToo movement happened, because people just continued to report it, and then those bad people keep moving on and moving on, and moving on. So, I filed a complaint. The city had unfortunately just gone through firing a judge who was pretty beloved by the community, and so I think they didn’t really want to admit, you know, the mistake that they had made. And so, the day that I filed the complaint at the EEOC, I was actually fired that night. So –.

SENGENBERGER [00:08:52] You were fired the night that you filed the complaint.

STAIERT [00:08:54] Yes, yes. Um, so anyway, to make a long story short, a couple of weeks later they paid, you know, the severance. You know, that was kind of –. Even before that happened, a lot of weird open meeting violations were happening and things like that.  And I had asked them, you know, “Can we just separate amicably?” And they basically said, “No.” So, when I filed, they fired me. A couple weeks later, they paid the severance agreement. You know, [there was] a lot of back and forth about, you know, non-disclosure. And I said, “I’m absolutely not signing nondisclosure. I intend to — as soon as this agreement is signed — I intend to go out and disclose and disparage you! So, you know, I’m not doing any of that!”  Anyway, I took my story to the local media and you know, they wrote about it. I disclosed all my employment files to sort of demonstrate what had happened. Maybe fortunately — or unfortunately for me –there was this weird tape, that when I had first filed the complaint, they — the council members — decided that I should mediate with this judge, which is really an odd thing, to sit down and mediate with somebody who’s been sexually harassing you. But I did it, and it was taped. And so, you know, during this tape recorded mediation, he basically admitted everything that had happened and said that, you know, he thought maybe the feelings were mutual. I mean, that was kind of his defense. And I said, “Well, they’re not. And, you know, this is not ethical, and this is a problem.” And so, anyway, that tape was out there and so it wasn’t really a question of whether it happened or not. It was just a question of, you know, how bad it was. So, I reported it. And then, you know, I continued to talk about it. I wrote about it. A few months after I got fired, Scott Gessler hired me. You know, sometimes people criticize Scott Gessler, and they’re like, you know, “What was it like? He was just so partisan, and he was so this, and he was so that.” And I will never say anything bad about Scott Gessler, because he didn’t know me, and he took a big chance. I mean, hiring somebody that had been fired under those circumstances? —  and he brought me into the office, and, you know, he gave me full discretion to do the things that I needed to do. He never gave me orders of how I should find on things or what I should do at title board or what I should do at hearings. You know, he was a real champion for me. I mean, I felt like he took me and gave me everything that I needed to succeed, even though I’d had this background that, you know, I think a lot of people would have walked away from. And so,–.

SENGENBERGER [00:11:30] That’s a good point. Much to his credit.

STAIERT [00:11:32] Yeah, to his credit, he never felt that way about it.

SENGENBERGER [00:11:32] And I guess you were good enough, because Wayne Williams kept you around another four years, for his term.

STAIERT [00:11:40] He did. And so, you know, I worked for a couple secretaries that were very different. But I continued to testify about what had happened back in Littleton. I tried to change the law for the judiciary. Polly Lawrence would run a bill every year to try to open up the judiciary to CORA, after I–.

SENGENBERGER [00:11:59] [That’s] Colorado Open Records Act request, yeah.

STAIERT [00:11:59] Yes. Yeah. After I had left the city of Littleton, I then filed a complaint against this judge with the Colorado Disciplinary Bar, which is run by the Colorado Supreme Court. After a year, they investigated, and then I just got a letter out of the blue– coincidentally, after I started working for Scott Gessler — telling me that my case was being dismissed. And so, he walked away with no discipline. And when I called the disciplinary counsel to ask why, they said, “Well, it’s not unethical to ask somebody out.” And I said, “Well, that’s not what happened. I want to see the file.” And they wouldn’t give it to me because they’re not subject to the Colorado Open Records Act. So, when Polly Lawrence ran her bill it was a perfect opportunity to go in and talk about why they should be open to the Colorado Open Records Act. And now we’ve seen more corruption in the judiciary.

SENGENBERGER [00:12:46] So, that hasn’t been approved?  That hasn’t been passed?” There is still something that needs to be changed.

STAIERT [00:12:51] Well, they finally passed it for the very narrow purpose of allowing access to sexual harassment files. So then I went back and asked for them again a couple summers ago, and they came back and they told me, “Well, that violates our rule, and our rule trumps the law.”  So, I mean, they’re still — we’re still just back to stage one.

SENGENBERGER [00:13:07] Wow!

STAIERT [00:13:07] But this is the kind of thing that happens.  And I’m not somebody who is afraid. I mean, I’m somebody who spoke out. I was somebody with a position of authority. And they still just treat you like they don’t have to give you any respect at all. They won’t pass over their files. I mean, they just act like they’re above the law.

SENGENBERGER [00:13:27] And especially at that point in time — but always, it’s always the case that for, especially a woman, to come out in these kind of circumstances and tell your story and push back takes a lot of courage. It’s not an easy thing to do. And that was — I think that’s especially so in the case when you didn’t have all this attention being brought to it. You didn’t have #MeToo as a movement. You were bringing #MeToo forward before #MeToo was even a thing.

STAIERT [00:13:51] Right. And you do, you get a lot of pushback. I had people in the community saying, “Well, she probably really did have an affair with him and it just didn’t go well.” And I mean, all those just kind of disparaging things come out when you talk about something like this. And it is uncomfortable. I remember going back to Littleton about a year later with Scott Gessler — he made me go back to this Rotary Club meeting.  And he gets up at the Rotary Club, and he starts talking, and then he kind of looks around the room and he says, “And I brought my new deputy with me! And if there’s anyone in the room who was responsible for firing her, I just want to say thank you!”  And I wanted to crawl under the table. But some of the people in the room were city council members who were responsible for firing me. And they got up and walked out. I mean, it was just –[laughs].

SENGENBERGER [00:14:30] Good for Scott! I love it! I love that! Good for Scott calling them out. And I know Wayne Williams thinks very highly of you, as well. But I want to ask [about] a few other topics here with you. And one is a basic one: why are you running for Senate District 27? What makes you want to go into the state Senate, Suzanne Staiert?

STAIERT [00:14:49] I love this community. I’ve lived in Senate District 27 for 20 years. My kids have gone to the schools there. I have two that have graduated from Arapahoe [High School], one that just started at Littleton High. I mean, this is where — I didn’t move there to run for office. I love that community. And I think that, you know, my perspective and the things that I can bring and the experience that I have, I just feel like people have to step up and run. And, you know, I’m not running for ego, I’m not running for money. I mean, I’m an attorney. I have a private practice. But I just really feel like–.

SENGENBERGER [00:15:26] Does anybody run for money, in the state legislature? Really? [laughs]

STAIERT [00:15:30] I don’t know, maybe.  But, I mean, maybe your listeners don’t know:  it pays $40,000 a year. But, I’m running because I think good people have to step up right now. It is more important than ever, and [they need to] talk about issues in a way that is good governance.

SENGENBERGER [00:15:48] What do you think is the trajectory of the state of Colorado right now? I mean, we’ve got Democrats in control of both the state Senate and the State House and the governorship.  They’ve rammed through the legislature a heck of a lot of things, like we’ve talked a lot about Senate Bill 181.  You have the Air Quality Control Commission now moving forward with this zero emission vehicle mandate. And you’ve got all these other things that are happening that seem to be very, very troubling.

STAIERT [00:16:14] Well, they are. And, you know, rulemaking has become something that is almost just too much to put wrap your head around. There’s just so much of it going on. And I’ve been on the rulemaking side, and so I understand that side.  And it’s not a — you know, it’s not a sexy or exciting part of being a legislator.  But all those rules go through the legislature. And if the legislature doesn’t like a rule they can sunset it. And that’s a really important power that we need to have more people paying attention to what’s happening at those rule makings, and pulling those rules up when they are overbroad or when they’re overreaching, and, you know, talk about them and shine some light on them.

SENGENBERGER [00:16:54] Yeah. Here on Business for Breakfast, we talk a lot about regulations in the administrative state and the amount of authority that’s given — not even just to legislators as part of government, but as you are talking about here, Suzanne Staiert, — the whole notion of governance by agencies that are able — or boards– that are able to make vast decisions and [are] ever-expanding.  For example, the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, as well as a lot of local communities now, have expanded regulatory authority over oil and gas.  And that, I think, is just one prominent an example — of many — of what you’re talking about.

STAIERT [00:17:29] Yes. And that’s where I think I can be incredibly effective also, is understanding what that rulemaking process is, and understanding the legislature’s authority over it, and being willing to exercise it. Because it’s impacting small businesses. It’s impacting jobs in Colorado. It’s impacting development, across the board.  These rule makings are really scary.

SENGENBERGER [00:17:52] Suzanne Staiert, again, our guest, Senate District 27 candidate on the Republican side, I want to ask you about education. And this is an issue that — I mean, you’re a parent, you have still got a child in high school. What about education is important to you from the quality standpoint, and how do you achieve that quality?

STAIERT [00:18:12] Well, I think part of it is we need to empower parents through things like school choice. I mean, I think our schools in this district are really good schools. But not every good school is good for every kid. And so I’ve had kids — you know, my own kids who, I mean, we had to go to Arapahoe [High School]. I live a block away from Arapahoe, but Arapahoe is not going to be a good school for my current daughter who just started. And so she’s going to Littleton [High School].  If we don’t have options like that, where we can move our kids around–. I had one — my middle daughter took a year and went to the STEM school when she was in middle school because, you know, the social dynamics of the middle school were just a little bit overwhelming for her. And, you know, we can’t just plug our kids in anymore and just, you know, assume that our neighborhood schools are going to work. Kids have different needs and we need to be able to address those, and parents need to be able to feel like they have options and choices for their kids when they end up in these situations. And I think it improves the schools too, when they can sort of concentrate on a certain thing instead of trying to be everybody to everything.  You know, Littleton High is where they’re running the International Baccalaureate Program, and they’re concentrating on different things than Arapahoe is concentrating on. And so, I think that’s okay and that’s good. It makes everybody a little better in those areas.

SENGENBERGER [00:19:30] What about teacher pay? This is something that we’ve talked about a lot on this show, and even highlighting some bills that the Republicans were trying to make their way through the legislature with this last session and the Democrats had killed. I mean, I’m a big advocate for increasing pay for teachers. But I also think that that needs to come from existing funds that are being allocated — and particularly from administration in school districts, which is remarkably bloated — as opposed to, say, new tax increase.

STAIERT [00:19:55] Well, I mean, certainly! And everybody keeps blaming the legislature. I mean, the Democrats blame the legislature. But the legislature has no authority over teacher pay, and teacher pay is set at the local level. And, I mean, teacher pay in the Littleton district in the Cherry Creek district, you know, it’s on par — it’s better than teacher pay we see in other places. And certainly the real crisis is actually out in the rural areas with teacher pay, where there’s no housing and no ability to attract those teachers. I think teacher pay is important. I went to Back to School Night last night, and I was just blown away by how amazing I thought every single one of those teachers was. And they certainly deserve to be paid well, and they deserve to be supported. And I have no issues with that. I mean, I think that our school districts handle it really well. Our voters tend to vote for the bonds to pay for things in the district. Because they’re getting a quality education.

SENGENBERGER [00:20:48] Yeah, and that is so important. You need to make sure that we have students who are graduating from high school, going on to college or a trade school, or whatever their career is going to be — whether they decide to continue on their education or not — that they are equipped for those opportunities. That’s for sure! Finally, Sue, talk very briefly — we’re just about out of time here with you, Suzanne Staiert, but — about elections and election law. I mean, this — you know a thing or two about that, as the former deputy secretary of state.

STAIERT [00:21:13] I do. I –you know, I’m — obviously that’s a lot of my expertise.  For the last seven years, I’ve been doing election law and business regulations. I mean, what’s happening right now with the Electoral College, that’s really bad stuff. We just had another horrible opinion out of the 10th Circuit about the college. You know, the election laws that they’re using, you know, it’s fine — I think — the new access that we’ve given, but we also need to have integrity and confidence in our elections. And we need to make sure that they don’t go too far the other direction.

SENGENBERGER [00:21:48] Yeah, and there is a bill that was passed — was it passed in this last session? — Well, there were a couple bills dealing with elections that concerned you.

STAIERT [00:21:55] There were.  I mean, the Omnibus Bill — they called it — which expands voter access, I mean, there was no need for that bill. There is no — you know, everybody — almost everyone in Colorado votes by mail, and they were trying to  open more voter and polling service centers —  which, if they didn’t cost any money, that would be one thing. But these are burdens on the counties and the taxpayers, and nobody’s really — you know, they just shrug their shoulders at that.

SENGENBERGER [00:22:20] Well, we have got to call it a conversation, here, but certainly want to chat with you more on the radio and moving forward throughout the campaign, Suzanne Staiert, again, candidate for Senate District 27.  Let me ask you a final question: Where can people go to learn more about you and your campaign?

STAIERT [00:22:35] Uh, so, my website is SuzanneStaiert-dot-com. And the last name is spelled S-T-A-I-E-R-T.

SENGENBERGER [00:22:41] It’s almost like it sounds. It’s just — where you might want to put a ‘Y’, you put an ‘I,’.

STAIERT [00:22:45] Yes. There you go!

SENGENBERGER [00:22:47] Exactly. See, I do the whole thing, “Sengenberger: There’s no ‘A,’  there’s no ‘I,’ there’s no ‘U’ in Sengenberger. It’s all ‘E’s, Once you know that, Sengenberger is easy!”

STAIERT [00:22:56] There you go.

SENGENBERGER [00:22:56] So, you have to figure out these little quirks, so, when you have a name which can be difficult to spell. All right, SuzanneStaiert-dot-com, thanks so much for joining us this morning on Business for Breakfast.

STAIERT [00:23:06] Thanks.