Station:    KNUS, 710 am

Show:       Chuck & Julie Show

Guests:    Williams, Dave

Link:        https://chuckandjulie.podbean.com/

Date:        June 6, 2018

Topics:     Principles of Liberty Scorecard, Colorado Civil Rights Commission,

Click Here for Audio

 HOST CHUCK BONNIWELL: [00:01:13] But, it’s just a beautiful day out there, and just a privilege to live in Colorado. And it’s a privilege to talk to Dave Williams. He’s a representative from District 15 in the Colorado State House. That’s El Paso County, and around Colorado Springs. Thanks so much for joining us, Dave!

COLORADO STATE SENATOR FROM DISTRICT 15 (EL PASO COUNTY), DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:01:31] Thanks for having me.

BONNIWELL: [00:01:33] You’re one of our leading lights. I saw you got an A+ on the Principles of Liberty Scorecard, which [for] a lot of us is kind of the official bible of what we think of people. [chuckles]

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:01:44] Right. Thank You.

HOST JULIE HAYDEN: [00:01:45] So, congratulations on that!

BONNIWELL: [00:01:45] And you’ll be awarded an award at the Western Conservative Summit on Saturday. So that’s fantastic for you.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:01:53] Yes, absolutely. [I’m] looking forward to it.

BONNIWELL: [00:01:55] All right. Now — now — now, we’ve been nice. Now let’s get to the other part.

HAYDEN: [00:02:01] [admonishing] No!

BONNIWELL: [00:02:01] So, you’ve tweeted out that you intend to introduce a bill next year in 2019 — assuming you win, and you won your last race easily so I assume you’ll be back — that will provide some real changes to the Colorado Civil Rights Commission that has been excoriated across the United States.

HAYDEN: [00:02:21] By the U.S. Supreme Court!

BONNIWELL: [00:02:22] Yeah, by the U.S. Supreme Court, by Justice Kennedy, and virtually every one of the justices said well, “You know, these people are awful. How could you possibly do this?” Only two said, “Well, yeah, they’re awful and they’re disgusting, but you know, we should ignore that.” And but, we do know — you know, we’re not all that dumb out here — that the statehouse is unlikely to be in Republican hands after the next election, and the state Senate may well be in Democratic hands. So your bill is going to go to the very first kill committee that the Speaker can give [it] to, and has about zero chance of passing. Conversely, you could — the Senate, anyway, not you — the Senate could have destroyed the Colorado Civil Rights Commission, or significantly reformed it. Kevin Grantham, who’s the president of the Senate, said we should “depolarize, deradicalize, and return to the original mission to protect civil liberties of all Coloradans, not just a select few.” Well great, Kevin! That’s neat! Why didn’t you — you have no chance next year. You will not change anything. You will not do anything. Now, maybe it’s not Kevin’s fault. You only had 18 to 17 majority in the Senate. But the Republicans — as we predicted on this show — will fold like a cheap suit, like they always do. Why do Republicans–.

HAYDEN: [00:03:47] Well that’s –. Let me the question, Chuck. Let’s ask a fair question.

BONNIWELL: [00:03:50] That’s a fair question.

HAYDEN: [00:03:50] Two point question: Why didn’t they do something about the Colorado Civil Rights Commission last — this year, at the end of the legislative session w henthey had the chance; and why do you — what can you do differently next time to actually get some changes?

BONNIWELL: [00:04:04] They can’t.

HAYDEN: [00:04:05] Well, let him answer, Chuck! Go ahead, Dave.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:04:08] No problem. Let we provide a little context. I was actually on the conference committee. Patrick Neville appointed me to that committee because he knew I’d stay strong and –.

BONNIWELL: [00:04:18] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:04:19] And, you know, to Senator Bob Gardner’s credit, he really did negotiate in good faith to try and get some good meaningful reforms. They didn’t succeed — simply put — because the Senate Republicans didn’t have the votes to p ut those reforms in, number one; or number two, simply let it die which I think most — at least, conservative — Republicans wanted the commission to go away.

HAYDEN: [00:04:42] Right.

BONNIWELL: [00:04:42] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:04:43] The distinction here, though, that people may not understand, is that the Civil Rights Division would have still existed. But we’re talking about the commission board itself, and he wanted to let that simply just go away, off into the sunset. But you have two or three Republicans in the Senate that would not have held strong. And so –.

BONNIWELL: [00:05:03] Well why not let — expose them!. Why does it always have to be [that] you got reforms that are no reforms. You have expanded the pool of haters and anti-Christian bigots that the governor can put on the board. And that makes no changes. Why not — just for once, just one time — say, “Look, you two Republicans in the Senate who really will not stand up for real reforms, Good! You know go stand up for it.” Do not have the whole Senate impugned — have every member impugned that they’re gutless quislings — when it’s really only two. “You two do not want any meaningful changes? Good! Let the people know who you are!”

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:05:46] Yeah, I’m absolutely okay with that. I’m — in fact, I’m one of the –. You know, most of those POL [Principles of Liberty] legislators that, you know, you made reference to — that’s usually our, you know, what we like to go off of. You know, let these people stand or fall on their own record.

BONNIWELL: [00:05:57] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:05:58] But you know, the Senate is a different animal. You know, I pleaded with a number of those senators just to simply not vote on it, because that was also an option.

HAYDEN: [00:06:08] Right. Right.

BONNIWELL: [00:06:08] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:06:08] Don’t vote on it.

BONNIWELL: [00:06:10] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:06:11] But that wasn’t going to happen. So –.

BONNIWELL: [00:06:14] Because that’s just, “Hey, we don’t expose our members to — we want to come up with a fig leaf that ends up impugning the motives of all the senators, rather than exposing the two–.”.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:07:14] Well, this was the crazy aspect of it, too, because this was a part of my pitch to those senators. I said, “Look, guys. We’ve got–. Look, if you guys really want to, you know, try and reform this — which I don’t think you should, but if you want to do it — there’s a one year wind-down. You have an extra year to deal with this.

BONNIWELL: [00:06:32] Yes! And It’s fully funded. Right!

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:06:32] Right. right. Don’t vote on it. Just win the senate majuority back. And then revisit the issue.

BONNIWELL: [00:06:32] Yeah!

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:06:33] You’ve got another year, here. We don’t have to do it now. But, you know, I’m a freshman legislator, so I guess they don’t want to listen to me.

HAYDEN: [00:06:33] [laughter].

BONNIWELL: [00:06:33] Well, maybe out of the mouths of babes, they ought to –. We’re talking with Dave Williams. He is the Representative — the ‘A+’ [rated] by the Principles of Liberty — Representative from District 15–

HAYDEN: [00:08:14] Colorado Springs.

BONNIWELL: [00:08:15] — who is a freshmen, but he’s doing just a tremendous job.

HAYDEN: [00:08:17] [he has] Some good ideas about reforming the –. Let me back you up–.

BONNIWELL: [00:08:17] Well, let me go to this other part of it. Let me go to this other part. Just tell me, because I’m confused. I really am confused. Why do the best and brightest Republicans almost inevitably become quislings? I know Cole Wist. I always liked Cole Wist. We worked on a case from up in Central City where he did the legal work. I thought of him [as] an extremely bright, extremely capable guy. And I was so thrilled when he decided to go into the legislature, which is not easy for a working lawyer because you’re three months out, and it’s really a tough deal. So I was so thrilled. And I’m also a huge backer of George Brauchler. I mean, we’ve had him on the radio program. I love him. And then Monday — on a certain Monday — there’s Cole and George in front of all the gun grabbers and Democrats telling us we have to vote on the world’s worst bill, and telling us it’s got all the due process. And everybody who read it, goes, “This is just–.” Luckily, they amended out the thing for additional jail cells for all of us that are going to be put into it, under this thing. Why do they sell us out?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:09:28] You know, I think this comes from a misconception. And it happens, you know, to the best of them. I mean, you can see people that get into office do the right thing, you know, and then they stay in office and they kind of get connected to, you know, certain organizations, certain, you know, powerbrokers, and they start feeding them, you know, these kind of — these lies, essentially. And I think, you know, for Cole Wist’s insance — and even George B raucler — they’re running in tough elections. Cole Wist is running against this individual named Tom Sullivan, his son died in the Aurora theater shooting. You have George B rauchler running a statewide race. And so, I think, you know, the elite, you know, consultant class is probably advising them, “Hey, you have to moderate your stance. You have to seem like a reasonable Republican.” When that’s — that’s just a stupid premise to go from. I mean, you know, one of our best presidents once said, “Bold colors!” — right — Not pale pastels.

BONNIWELL: [00:10:24] Right. Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:10:25] That’s what wins elections. I think people don’t understand –and they should, the candidates should understand –that your independent voters, they want someone who is authentic. They w ant someone who is going to say what they mean and do what they say, and not someone that’s kind of moderate and, you know, try to sell out [inaudible].

BONNIWELL: [00:10:43] –please everybody. Yeah.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:10:45] Yeah. You’re never going to please everyone, so don’t do it. Just stick up for what you believe in and people will vote for you.

BONNIWELL: [00:10:53] Yeah, but there’s never any — there’s never any — there’s not a bunch of Democrats standing on the Capitol with Tom Tancredo saying they want to support a sanctuary bill. You never see that. Right? You never see it on the other side, where all these Democrats [say], “We agree with Tom Tancredo. We ought to have, you know, a sanctuary bill!” It only works one way. And even if Cole Wist had gotten the nod from the cognizente that this made him look more moderate, he at least could have told his caucus he’s going and doing it. I mean, I understand that –.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:11:28] Well, you know, there’s some funny things going on there. And you know, I [have] got to tell you, I’m very disappointed in what Cole did there. Because if you look at news reports, you can kind of see that they had been working on this since December, January timeframe.

BONNIWELL: [00:11:45] Right. Yes. Yes.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:11:51] My guess — I’m speculating now. Had any of this gotten out, George Brauchler probably would have had a significant challenge at the State Assembly, and same for Cole Wist. So, my guess is that they kind of played this close —

BONNIWELL: [00:11:55] Right. Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:11:56] –until they got past those dates, and, you know, the rest is history. And then, it’s unfotunate. They shouldn’t do stuff [inaudible] redline–

HAYDEN: [00:12:05] Let me–.

BONNIWELL: [00:12:07] Well, I understand that Representative Humphreys did a motion to have him removed as the number two in the house. And you second that motion. Is that true?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:12:12] Yeah. That’s absolutely true. We did hold the vote. It didn’t pass. But I can tell you that it wasn’t it wasn’t a good vote for him, either. And, you know, it’s nothing against–I had no personal animosity towards Cole. It’s just for me, you know, this is a red line. And I — we h ad one of our members kind of put it this way: you know, had Alec Garentt –who was the Democrat Assistant Majority Leader — had he sponsored a piece of pro-life legislation, do you think he’d remain in Democrat leadership?

BONNIWELL: [00:12:44] He wouldn’t even be alive!

HAYDEN: [00:12:44] He would really need his — he would need his bullet proof vest then, for sure.

BONNIWELL: [00:12:45] He would not be alive! Yeah! True! He wouldn’t need that bullet proof vest.

HAYDEN: [00:12:50] We’re talking to State Representative Dave Williams, here, with Chuck and Julie. [There is] kind of some fallout from the Masterpiece Cake Shop. Let me — because I wanted to talk to you about that. Why don’t you explain to people — because I sat through some of those hearings with the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when I was a reporter at Fox News, and was appalled at the language they used, the way they treated Jack Phillips. But I mean, talk — why don’t you explain to people, number one, who these people are and how they get on the panel, and then [number two], how you think it should be handled.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:13:22] Well, I mean, it’s no secret. The governor gets to appoint who these people are. And, you know, in pretty much all instances, these are sold out, you know, radical extemists and individuals who are sold out to you know homosexual lobby. This is why One Colorado — you know, [the] leading homosexual radical group — is, you know, pushing for the Civil Rights Commission and always pushing to get their members –or people who are friendly to their cause — onto the commission, because they know that, you know, if they get their people in there then they’re going to be able to bully people of faith — specifically Christians, like Jack Phillips — into essentially doing what they wanted. It’s this, you know, you will be made to care, right?

BONNIWELL: [00:14:03] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:14:03] This isn’t tolerance anymore. This is forced acceptance of lifestyle, even if it violates people’s religious beliefs. And that’s what the committee — or the commission — pretty much is right now. And, you know, basically, you know, the Supreme Court really pointed out, you know, this this is not unbiased. You guys were not neutral. You’ve got a clear–

HAYDEN: [00:14:27] They were hostile!

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:14:27] Yeah, you’ve got a clear, hostile sort of position towards Jack Phillips. And this has been a problem long before Jack Phillips, truth be told. But, you know, Jack’s case highlighted it.

BONNIWELL: [00:14:40] Sure. Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:14:40] And so, you know, I want to at least get the discussion out there. I know that if we don’t take back the House and retain the Senate and get the governorship, then, you know, it’s a long shot that we can get actual meaningful reform.

BONNIWELL: [00:14:53] Zero.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:14:53] But I always tell people that, you know, Rome wasn’t built in a day. You know, you to keep pushing and offering these pieces of legislation so that, you know, when Democrats vote against it, when liberal Republicans vote against it, we can go back to their districts and make the case as to why they need to be kicked out of office and why we need to get good people in there.

BONNIWELL: [00:15:06] Right.

HAYDEN: [00:15:14] Ah! Good point!

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:15:15] So, that’s why I keep offering legislation like this.

BONNIWELL: [00:15:19] Sure. Sure.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:15:19] Because eventually, you know, it’s going to pass. And this is — you know, history has shown this before. There has been many — for instance, the Civil Rights movement. You had pieces of legislation offered and offered and offered. And finally, you get a breakthrough.

BONNIWELL: [00:15:31] Right.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:15:32] And that’s — that’s my hope, as long as I’m there.

HAYDEN: [00:15:36] What could you do? Would you want to have it where the legislature has some sort of authority over it, or at least a confirmation — you know, just limit it to a –.

BONNIWELL: [00:15:42] Well, a lot of people go to court if they get an adverse ruling.

HAYDEN: [00:15:42] Right. Give some kind of due process?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:15:42] Well, ideally, we’d like to get rid of it.

HAYDEN: [00:15:50] Okay. Good point.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:15:50] But given the politicians that are up there, they probably don’t have the stomach for it. So, in lieu of that, what I’d really like to see is I’d like to turn it into a commission that simply makes recommendations to the state Attorney General’s office, and the Attorney General can make — through their prosecutorial discretion — they can decide whether or not to pursue, you know, any sort of, you know, charges or litigation or what have you.

BONNIWELL: [00:16:16] Right.

HAYDEN: [00:16:17] That makes sense.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:16:18] But essentially, they should — this commission should not be able to dish out penalties, should not be able to dish out fines or punishment. People have a right — it’s in the Constitution. If you need — if you want to go to have a jury trial, then yeah, you should have a jury deciding this if you’ve had some sort of “civil rights violation,” quote/unquote. And it shouldn’t be, you know, these people that are unaccountable.

BONNIWELL: [00:16:39] Right.

HAYDEN: [00:16:40] Right. Well, and that’s what –. We’re talking with State Representative Dave Williams about the Colorado Civil Rights Commission following the Masterpiece Cake Shop case. I think you’re right. You know, when I sat there — again, at those hearings — and I realized these people were ordering Jack, if he was going to continue his business, to have re -education, re-educate his staff. They had all of these draconian impositions, that he was going have to keep track of who we sold cakes to, and they could do inspections.

BONNIWELL: [00:17:02] I was surprised –.

HAYDEN: [00:17:03] I was like, how can –. This is a group — like, it could be me and my neighbors. I mean, these people have no authority. No one elected them. No one even knows who they are. And yet, they–.

BONNIWELL: [00:17:10] Well, I was ready for them to demand that Jack engage in homosexual sex. I mean, that’s — because, you know, that’ll be the next requirement they have. I mean, they are so left wing and so out of it, that it’s just shocking. I mean, it is shocking. And we could have gotten rid of the Civil Rights Commission, or could have had meaningful reforms if the Republicans in the Senate would have stood together and kind of go, “Okay, either make some meaningful reforms, or it just dies for a year.” But [it] just never quite happens, does it?

HAYDEN: [00:17:41] Well, maybe it will.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:17:44] You know, my hope is that once we keep pressing on this issue, we keep presenting it, you know, these guys will come around. It’s hard for politicians up there to come around because they’re in this bubble of lobbyists, you have consultants, you have all my people, you know, are– they think they’re experts. They think they know what they’re doing. But the problem is, is that they are they’re away from, you know, actual people. This is why I commute every day. I come home every day because I hate Denver, I hate being up there.

BONNIWELL: [00:18:12] [laughter]. But Colorado Springs is getting to be as bad! All you ever do is vote for fee increases! Suthers — I mean, he has always been a lefty, and he’s your mayor. I mean, Egad! He’ll turn Colorado Springs into Denver in a few years!

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:18:30] That’s a fair — it’s a fair point. But I can tell you that my goal is always to get home to my family. My neighbors, you know, they’re normal people. When you go up to Denver you’re surrounded by a bunch of ‘unnormal’ people.

HAYDEN: [00:18:45] And your neighbors can come and say, “What are you guys doing?”. Well, Dave, listen, are you going — we’re going to be at the Western Conservative Summit. Are you going to be there, too, this weekend if people want to come by and say hi?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:18:53] Yeah. Yeah, I’ll be around. Absolutely.

HAYDEN: [00:18:55] All right.

BONNIWELL: [00:18:55] Let me ask you just one other question, and [then] we have to go to break and all that.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:18:56] Sure.

BONNIWELL: [00:18:58] How do you see the atmosphere, right now, for the election? I know you have to be positive and all that. I mean, you know, we had Ted Trimpa –who is an uber-Democratic consultant — and he says, you know, Colorado really is 50/50 –we look at every metric. He says, “But the Democrats are going to prevail because we’ve got infrastructure and the Republicans do not.” Would you concur with that assessment?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:19:20] You know, I think that it’s shaping up to be a pretty bad year for Republicans in Colorado. Now, that might be different nationwide. But for some reason, Democrats always have our number in Colorado. And it’s because they’re well-financed, they are very well-organized, and they’re willing to drop six figures in a simple state legislative race, if they want to win.

BONNIWELL: [00:19:40] Right. Yeah.

HAYDEN: [00:19:40] See, Dave, that’s what Chuck and I have been saying: Republicans need better billionaires.

BONNIWELL: [00:19:47] –in Colorado. Republican billionaires, we need more Republican billionaires.

HAYDEN: [00:19:49] — and better! .

BONNIWELL: [00:19:50] We ought to go out — we ought to go to New York, Las Vegas.

HAYDEN: [00:19:51] Do some recruiting!

BONNIWELL: [00:19:51] Yeah, recruiting — “It’s a beautiful state! Why don’t you come here, be our sugare daddy?

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:19:59] Well, we can win if we simply stood up for what we believed in — very much like the Democrats. Democrats, like you said it earlier, they don’t — they’re not, you know, timid about what they believe in. And they they go for it.And we need to do the same thing. I think people are more drawn to authentic, you know, candidates that believe in our platform. And we can win if we just simply stuck to it.

HAYDEN: [00:20:23] All right.

BONNIWELL: [00:20:23] Well, Dave, you are one of our heroes! And we look forward to meeting you at the Western Conservative Summit. And keep — keep fighting the good fight.

DAVE WILLIAMS: [00:20:29] Will do! Thanks for having me on, guys!

HAYDEN: [00:20:30] All right. Thank you, sir! All right. We’ll be back right after this, Chuck Bonniwell and Julie Hayden. Our thanks to State Representative Dave Williams who hopefully can get some reforms in on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission.