Station:    KNUS, 710 am

Show:       Chuck & Julie show

Guests:    Pfaff, Jim

Link:        https://chuckandjulie.podbean.com/e/chuck-julie-july-15-2019-hr-2/

Date:       July 15, 2019

Topics:           Joshua Hosler, Josh Hosler, Dudley Brown, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, RMGO, Patrick Neville, House Minority Leader, Chief of Staff, Bob Beauprez, Governor Polis, TABOR, Taxpayer Bill of Rights, Colorado Taliban, Colorado’s Amendment 43, Marriage Amendment, Colorado Family Action, Americans for Prosperity (AFP), Matt Arnold, President Trump, Grassroots Campaign, Dick Wadhams, Susan Beckman, El Paso County, Douglas County Republican Party, Mister Marine, Dave Williams, John Morse, Recall, Alan Loeffler, Steve Dorman, Antifa, Planned Parenthood, Jake Viano, Proposition 8 in California, House Freedom Caucus, Anil Mathai, Ryan Call

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HOST JULIE HAYDEN [00:00:00] [correcting Bonniwell’s mispronounciation of the intervewee’s name]  Pfaff!  Pfaff.  I keep saying his name wrong, so we apologize off the top.

HOST CHUCK BONNIWELL [00:00:05] –who is just a great guy, I got to meet him at our Save Our State.

HAYDEN [00:00:10] Okay. That’s right!!

BONNIWELL [00:00:11] He was there with Patrick. And he has been subject to — can you believe it? — a cartel attack headed up by Joshua Hosler, saying that Jim [Pfaff] was was mean to him and therefore he wrote a editorial page one for the Denver Post — which is the way Republicans always do. “You were mean to me. I think I’ll write an editorial.”   So, Jim, thanks so much for coming on.

CHIEF OF STAFF FOR COLORADO HOUSE MINORITY LEADER PATRICK NEVILLE, JIM PFAFF [00:00:39] Thanks for having me, guys.

HAYDEN [00:00:40] So, we wanted to talk to you to sort of set the record straight. We’re talking about, it was an — first it came out as an editorial in The Rock — [embarrassed by her mistake] er, in the Rocky Mountains News — [correcting herself] in the Denver Post by a guy by the name of Josh Hosler, who has worked before — don’t know if he still is, but has certainly worked before with Bob Beauprez.  And I guess you don’t call them this, Jim, but we here on the show have referred to some of these establishment Republicans is “the cartel.” They don’t like it when other people try to run candidates without their official stamp of approval who haven’t really been bought and paid for. And it seems to me that one of the things that they [have] got to be concerned about is how effective you and Patrick Neville have been. I mean, Patrick Neville — and the reason this matters is, take a look at just the — you know, Governor Polis was trying to call a special session basically to do an end run and get rid of TABOR. And because you guys were able to keep the Republican caucus together, you were able to back him off of that. So TABOR still stands. But but I wanted to talk to you –.  You know, they were comparing, you know, the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners Association to the Taliban. I mean, just ridiculous things! Why do you kind of talk about this and what you want people to know.

PFAFF [00:01:54] Well, you know, I came to Colorado first in 2005. I ran the marriage amendment effort in 2006 when I was working for Focus on the Family [Colorado’s Amendment 43 restricted marriage to a relationship exclusively between one man and one woman], founded Colorado Family Action, founded the AFP chapter here in the state — the Americans for Prosperity chapter, — was on the radio for four years. I’ve been around these people — the cartel, if you want to call them that, the grassroots activists — for a lot of years. And so I’m very used to this. [I] spent eight years in Washington D.C., and I came back because I wanted to help Patrick be effective, because he is one of the most effective leaders — not just in this state but that we’ve had across the country. You know, I spent eight years in Washington D.C. as a chief of staff for a couple of different congressmen. The mess that’s happening up there, the stupidity of Paul Ryan recently coming out and bashing Trump,  I mean it’s just absurd for him to even think he has the moral high ground to do that. Patrick is one of these guys that’s been a visionary leader who — while being very purposeful about the principles he stands for — when he’s been a leader of the caucus, has truly done a good job of making sure that that thing runs in a proper way so that everybody in the caucus is treated fairly and given due notice when they do things that are good and then not beating up on people if there’s just some internecine disagreement that you have internally. He’s been fantastic at that.  And yes, it has led to us being able to stand in a unanimous fashion as a caucus to be able to say, “No! We’re not going to give up people’s money. You’ve got to go to the voters and ask them first before you want to take the money away.” That wouldn’t happen if we hadn’t had the tremendous leadership that Patrick provides. And that’s what I’m here to support.

HAYDEN [00:03:50] Why don’t you talk a little bit about — you know, you talked about your background there, and I know you probably — actually, because it’s us, we’re the radio talk show hosts, right? — and talking about sort of the history. But I mean, I do think –.  And let me ask you if you want to comment on this. I think that what is happening here, we see it — we’ve seen it in races, we see it and other things that are cropping up, Friends of the Future, things like that, where basically people who are establishment types don’t like it when the grassroots is effective. Matt Arnold was on last hour saying that you guys are getting more than he has ever seen before, like, individual donations from people. I mean, people are responding and I think there are some people who are used to being in power in Colorado who don’t like that. Any thoughts on that, that you want to talk about?

PFAFF [00:04:36] Well, you know, it is true: they don’t like it. But sometimes it is hard to discern, sometimes [it is] easy to discern why that’s the case. The number one reason why a lot of these people don’t like grassroots activists having a say in what’s happening is because they feel uncomfortable themselves — many of them, not all of them but many of them — in standing for the principles that we believe in, because they’re scared as they observe the shift in Colorado. I will tell you this, and even though we’ve got a different electorate now, in 2006 when I ran the Marriage Amendment, everyone told me, “There’s no way it can work. The suburban women hate this idea. You might as well just give up because we’re going down a different path and that’ll never work.” We won big because we ran a great campaign. We ran a grassroots campaign and then we did the work with the help of some tremendous people at Focus on the Family Action of understanding what our message needed to be. Now back then, we didn’t have this mass of unaffiliated voters that we have now. We’re in a different environment and it’s more challenging. But the same principles apply. But as these establishment types look at the electorate, they’re scared because they don’t know who the Republicans are in those unaffiliateds and they don’t understand. The way that you talk to those people is by standing for issues that matter and showing leadership. And they’re scared to show leadership. So they want to — anyone that wants to give leadership when it’s really messy because the grassroots people are so messy and it’s hard to deal with them, well, that’s the only way you win in politics. Our whole system is a messy process. [2.1s]

BONNIWELL [00:06:22] Well, you know, maybe I’m the only one — and I seem to be the only one –but I constantly look at the electorate and kind of go, “Well wait a minute!”  We’re not having masses of minority voters coming in. We’re not getting masses of lots of those. You do have a couple hundred thousand people often. I think the two biggest counties they come from  — to Denver anyway — outside of Colorado, is Orange County and L.A. County.  But they’re not massively left wing. I mean, they’re younger because they don’t have the money to buy homes.  So, that’s why you have a thousand apartment houses going up all over the place. But I don’t think — notwithstanding what everybody says — that the electorate has changed. I mean, I just go back to Susan Beckman’s analysis. You know, she lives in a district — Centennial, and other ones — single family homes, no big overturn, no big — you know, not thousands of people moving in, not all of a sudden huge apartment houses going in — nothing! Nothing, other than the ususal small turnover that you have in any single bedroom–. And she went from a 15-point winner to just barely scraping by.  And she kind of went, “It’s not — it wasn’t a different electorate! It’s a different electoral system!”  And Republicans just seem so slow on the take up! You cannot — you cannot run an election –I’m just looking here at a one from Dick Wadhams in an article in Colorado Politics, saying [reading from the article], “But the dynamic of a  statewide race for governor pr senator has not changed for the last 30 or 40 years. Both parties have strong base of support. You have a huge reservoir of unaffiliated voters Republicans have to be able to compete for.”   You do not compete for them by sending out mailers. You do not compete with them by TV ads. You compete with them by going to their home and knocking on their door which is what the Democrats did! And that’s what they did in the 38th district. And Republicans just don’t seem to get it.  I was talking to — and I really love Tamra Farah. She’s the head of the El Paso County [Republican Party] which Joshua Hosler was before her. But I said, “Have you read–?”  And she said, “Well, I briefly looked at, but i have so much — don’t have much time,” and everything else. And I just feel like going, “It’s hopeless!”.

HAYDEN [00:08:45] It’s not hopeless!

BONNIWELL [00:08:45] These people will never get it! They won’t get it that the Democrats have shifted the way politics and elections are done. And here’s one from, you know, it’s Dick Wadhams, and “nothing has changed in the last 30, 40 years!” It has changed totally! They’ve changed the system! And the Republicans are still going [characterizing a nonchalant and unengaged attitude], “La-dee-la-la, hum-de-doe-doe.”    But anyway, that’s my little rant.

PFAFF [00:09:09] [Chuckles].  You brought up one Orange County, Colorado [sic]. California changed so much of their election process that you can actually vote gather in Orange County. And Republicans did not catch up to that change in the voting law. And that’s the biggest reason that most of those seats were lost.

BONNIWELL [00:09:27] Yes!

PFAFF [00:09:28] [Unintelligible] like that to Colorado. Let’s analyze this for a second. It stands to reason that the people who –. We hear everyone in this state talking about, “Oh, man! They’re returning to California [meaning to say, they’re turning Colorado into California!]  All these Californians came here!”  Who do you think is leaving California?

BONNIWELL [00:09:36] Yeah!

[00:09:36] Now, there are some Democrats that leave — of course!– because it’s a beautiful state, and environmentalist, and –.  But it’s all the Republican and conservative-minded and unaffiliated that are moving here!

BONNIWELL [00:09:52] Yes!

PFAFF [00:09:52] We just have to convince them that we understand why they left California and how we’re going to protect them.

BONNIWELL [00:10:00] We have to talk to them! We have to talk to them, and we have to learn how to ballot harvest!  I mean, it’s just — it’s just so obvious!

PFAFF [00:10:05] Yeah! Yeah!

BONNIWELL [00:10:07] The problem with it is it’s expensive. And if you don’t have the SEIU, if you don’t have the CEA, if you don’t have all these groups — Planned Parenthood — it’s incredibly difficult.  And the Republicans have almost no one anymore. They used to have faith based groups. They got away from that. You know, all you have is maybe Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and a couple other small groups. [00:10:27]But Republicans are going to have to figure out how to compete, and it isn’t just coming up with a more moderate message which won’t get through to anyone — anyone!  But let me ask you another question. Basically, what Joshua Hosler says is you tried to blackmail him. You tried to threaten him. You said you were going to do opposition research, get all this dirt on him and expose it, unless he stopped being mean to Dudley Brown. I [15.5s] mean, that’s basically a short version of his editorial.

PFAFF [00:10:57] Yeah, that’s what he said. So, this is how this is how the whole thing started. [00:11:01]Back in February, I got word that Josh was attacking one of our members in the caucus. And I just cal– and I understand — I called him and I –. [5.8s]

BONNIWELL [00:11:07] [00:11:07]Dave Williams? Was it Dave Williams?[0.1s]

PFAFF [00:11:07] [00:11:07]I’m not naming names. I’m not naming names. I work for the caucus. I’ll let everyone else figure that out. [0.0s]

BONNIWELL [00:11:07] [00:11:07]Dave Williams. [0.0s]

PFAFF [00:11:07] [00:11:07]So, he’s attacking people and I just called him up and I just said, “Listen, Josh! We’ve got a challenging session that we’re in the middle of, here. We’re beginning to make some progress, Can we just back off, so that we can go fight these battles?”  And so, we talked about it. He seemed like he was going to come around. And then by the end of the call, he said no. And I had suggested, “Let’s just sit down together, and just talk through this.” Josh had followed me and had some respect for me, it seemed, in the past for my reputation, but he just said, “No! There’s no way, I’m not sitting down! Forget it! I don’t care!”   Well, okay, whatever, and then I walked, I moved [44.4s] along.   About mid-May, someone told me that Josh was attempting to — was putting together a book to try to expose Dudley Brown and RMGO for personal issues. And I’m like, “WHAT?!” But I kind of pawned it off for a little bit, until I got a call from someone who got a call from Josh. and this person would have been dragged through the mud by what Josh was trying to claim with Dudley, had they talked to him. Well, fast forward [to] just a couple days — a few days after that, and he and I are having a Twitter battle over this whole thing. We’re ramping up — Kristi Brown is ramping up the whole recall.

HAYDEN [00:12:43] — with Tom Sullivan.

PFAFF [00:12:43] Yeah, and he’s bashing Dudley Brown.

HAYDEN [00:12:43] Right!

PFAFF [00:12:43] And I’m like, going back and forth on Twitter with him, like, [00:12:43]”Can we just back off of this?  Why are we fighting together? We got to get this thing going! Maybe it won’t work, but it’s definitely not going to work if we’re all in a circular firing squad. So anyway, once he started talking about the personal things with Dudley then I gave him a call, and I said, “Josh!” And again, I pled with him, “Can we stop this?” So he just was antagonistic about that. And then I said, “Okay, fine! Well, what if I just went and — you know, there were all these personal rumors on you when you ran for office, what if I was out there throwing these all out at you, and then — and bringing this up? Isn’t that just mutual assured destruction? We’re just all beating one another up, instead of just trying to get things done.” And I pressed that issue with him for a little bit. We got to to the middle of a 56-minute, 39-second call and I said to him, “Listen, Josh, I’m just pressing this because I’m trying to make a point, here. I don’t play this kind of politics. This is not how I do things. I’m just trying to show you. It’s uncomfortable for everybody. It gets nowhere. All it is is innuendo,anyway!  So, why don’t we just focus on trying to get done — go for wins!”  Because it’s about winning, in politics. It’s not — in fact, Ronald Reagan says it’s amazing what you could accomplish if you don’t care who gets the credit. His [Hosler’s] big argument is that Dudley got the credit for the John Morse recall, and all this sort of thing.  And my point is, listen, who cares about the credit? We’re out to win! So anyway, at the end of that call, he was, according to what he said in his editorial, totally feigning — in other words, not telling the truth — that he and I came to agreement [unintelligible]. [108.4s]

BONNIWELL [00:14:32] [00:14:32]Well, that’s right. And if you read the article — and I don’t have it in front of me — but it says at the end of the phone call you thought that you were all set. He was going to let you — leave you with that false impression, which [is] kind of like, well, that’s not really stand up for Mister Marine.[15.9s]

HAYDEN [00:14:51] Well, and here’s the thing. You know, Matt Arnold pointed out –. We’re talking with Jim Pfaff, the Chief of Staff with Patrick Neville over at — the State [House] Minority Leader. As Matt Arnold said — and here’s the problem: I think that you guys up there at the state capital keep fighting. And that is, for Hosler and the people who back him, the Democrats are not the opponents. YOU are the opponents, and we’re the opponents. And that’s the underlying problem. And then they turn around and say, “Oh! We need to unite with them!”  And I guess one of the reasons I wanted to have you on to talk with us is to point out that Coloradans — Republican Coloradans — are united behind the stuff that you guys are doing and trying to do there.

BONNIWELL [00:15:27] And [united behind] Donald Trump!

HAYDEN [00:15:27] And Donald Trump!

BONNIWELL [00:15:27] And let’s face it, the cartel hates Donald Trump. You know? Your old group, quite frankly — Americans for Prosperity — now hates, and has always hated Donald Trump.

PFAFF [00:15:40] Yep, that’s right! It’s been quite [a few] years since I was involved with them, but yeah!  And it is unfortunate. Donald Trump, with all of his faults — and there are times I just want to bite my lip and [screams in frustration] — I have got to tell, he — that is exactly what was needed in Washington D.C.. I spent eight years there. I worked with these House Freedom Caucus members. So many of them I consider friends, and they have really tried to hold the Republican feet to the fire. Well, right here in Colorado, right now under Patrick Neville’s leadership, with the group of House members we got — way behind nine members down — but fighting every single day, unified, not all of — some of them [are] what you would call ‘the establishment type approach to things’ —  but all unified on all the issues that have mattered in this last legislative session, and they stood together on all those even in some disagreement. Even in some very severe ones.

HAYDEN [00:16:36] Well, and here is the thing — I think — to point out about that, and this is again why you guys are so effective, is, where we are unified in is in the ideas and the principles and what we want to get done and what we want to not have done in Colorado. The only difference is [with] what we call ‘the cartel,’ they just want the power. They don’t even actually care what’s being done or not done, as long as they’re the ones in charge of it.

BONNIWELL [00:17:00] No, they want –.  Right. They want construction defects.  I mean, to them, the Holy Grail of everything is construction defect law. And while construction defect law ought to be changed, it isn’t the be all and end all of everything!  But to them it is. And you know, what happens with Republicans — and I’ve raised money — is, they want influence with whoever they give money to. They want to be able to say, “Hey! I need you to support this bill! Hey! It’s what I want, what I need! And that is in part why the Republican Party is in such trouble in Colorado, is because your billiaires do not care about –.  They’re not there for the greater good. They are there for their business good of themselves. And what you’re doing, which is — I think — tremendous is kind of going, “Okay, well, they’re not going to support us.”  And they’re not! They’re just not going to!  I mean, you know, I don’t care what you do, Phil Anschutz is never going to support conservative causes. We’re just going to do grassroots and it appears that you are succeeding.

BONNIWELL [00:18:04] –which is just not allowable, and therefore, you know, you’ve got to send–.

HAYDEN [00:18:10] You’re the Taliban!

 

BONNIWELL [00:18:10] Yeah! you’re the Taliban, and you all have got to be destroyed, using The Denver Post — of course, using The Denver Post — and going on left wing radio programs.  I mean it is just amazing.

PFAFF [00:18:25] Yeah! Why are they– why are they not going to the Colorado Springs Gazette? You know? I mean, I — here’s something [unintelligible].

BONNIWELL [00:18:28] Well, that’s — because that’s left wing, too, unfortunately, these days.

PFAFF [00:18:28] Well, I won’t — it’s better! But anyway, I’ll leave it at that.

BONNIWELL [00:18:28] Not much [better].

PFAFF [00:18:28] But I won’t make that argument.  But what is very interesting, here, is there’s another component that you didn’t mention but I know it’s really important to you, is, there is a cadre of consultants in this space –.

BONNIWELL [00:18:49] Yes!

HAYDEN [00:18:49] Yes.

PFAFF [00:18:49] –who make a lot of money by keeping the status quo that we’ve lived with for the last 15 years.

BONNIWELL [00:18:58] Right.

PFAFF [00:18:58] Now, I complained about this when I was here, and talked about it. I’ve complained about it when I was in Washington D.C., for a little while. I complained about it when I was chairman of the Douglas County Republican Party and on the state committee.  I– I — This has been a problem for a long, long time. I’ve been a consultant myself in previous years, prior to going to Washington D.C., and I don’t have a problem with people making money doing consulting. My problem is that they’re not about winning.

HAYDEN [00:19:29] Right.

PFAFF [00:19:29] This is every — you know, Vince Lombardi made it very clear. You know, a lot of people think that his winning statement was a crass thing about selfishness. It wasn’t at all, because the point he was making was, “Listen, this is a football team. At the end of the year, there is going to be one team that’s going to be campion.” This is all about becoming champions. That’s it. It’s the same thing in politics. It’s about winning.  And if you’re not dedicated to winning — and in our case, on the principles that are just a basic principle–. I mean, if we could just get to doing the basic principles of the Republican platform, wow! — we’d really be moving forward. And I’m not particularly satisfied with those, I don’t think they go far enough. But if we could just start there, then we could really go somewhere in this thing. And they don’t want to do that. They want the money!

HAYDEN [00:20:13] Hey, Jim, — Right. And that’s the thing. We have got to take a quick break. I want to have you hang on a second, too, and we can wrap this part up.  And then I also want to talk about —  again, because you guys really are accomplishing some things there — about what are the kind of things that are going on and are going to be continuing — you know, with some things out there in the future, too. So, hang on there, everybody!  Jim Pfaff, the chief of staff with Patrick Neville and the Republicans down there at the state legislature in the House. You’re listening to Chuck Bonniwell and Julie Hayden, and this is Newstalk 710, KNUS.

[00:20:43] [commercial break]

BONNIWELL [00:20:45] All right, Chuck Bonniwell, Julie Hayden here at 710 KNUS.  We’re with Jim –Poff?

BONNIWELL & HAYDEN [00:20:50] Pfaff!

BONNIWELL [00:20:50] Pfaff.

BONNIWELL & HAYDEN [00:20:52] We’ve got another caller, Jim, who has got a name similar to yours and we keep calling you his name, so sorry about that!

PFAFF [00:20:59] Oh, no, as a friend told me one time, “Why don’t you buy a vowel?”.

BONNIWELL & HAYDEN [00:21:00] [laughing].

 

BONNIWELL [00:21:00] The article ends up: [reading from the article] “But I will but I not–“. And this is Mr. Hosler. “I will not sell my soul to the devil like Jim Faff–.”.

HAYDEN [00:21:16] Pfaff!

BONNIWELL [00:21:16] Pfaff. Pfaff, okay, just forget the —

PFAFF [00:21:20] — the first ‘F.’.

BONNIWELL [00:21:20] [continuining to read from the Hosler op-ed]  “–and not stand up to the cancer like Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.  RMGO, Dudley Brown, and Jim Pfaff are not a partisan problem. They are a Colorado problem. I will not be silent. I will not ask Minority Leader Pat Neville to fire Jim Pfaff. It’s up to Neville how he runs his House, unless he doesn’t fire Jim Pfaff.” So that’s how it ends up. And I’m sure there are other things you’d want to refute about that article.

BONNIWELL [00:21:54] I mean one of the things he did in there is he. He had he attacked you for saying you were going to attack his family, right?

PFAFF [00:22:00] Oh, yeah! And I never –. It’s just amazing that he has been implying that the whole time. Now, if he feels threatened or whatever, I don’t –. All I did was just tell him, “What if I were threatening you.” I didn’t threaten to threaten him. I didn’t say I was going to do it. And obviously, after the phone call, I didn’t. In fact, the tweet I tweeted out right after that phone call, that, “Hey, Josh Hosler and I, we’ve been going back and forth here on Twitter. We’ve had disagreements. And quite frankly we realize that this has been just a bit childish and frankly, I take full responsibility for what I did,” and basically said I shouldn’t have done that. I mean, my purpose and full intention was to be self-deprecating and recognize that the areas where I did make a mistake in that argument — which I really didn’t need to have on Twitter — but, it is absurd to say that I was threatening his family. I think that goes way overboard.

BONNIWELL [00:23:04] Well, it says — let’s see, “I was shocked at the House GOP staff would defend a proud attacker of public candidates while doing opposition research and trying to extort a supporter of Republicans,” which is exactly what Bob Beauprez does.  You say, “There are false rumors that I had heard before that I had rigged the Party chair election, had inappropriate relationships with women in the Republican Party.” Did you tell him those things?

PFAFF [00:23:31] No, I did not. And I have told him that I felt he was an ineffective chair of the county. But that’s about as far as I got into that.

BONNIWELL [00:23:43] Yeah, he was pretty ineffective. I mean, if you just take — by election results, it was a pretty disastrous election in 2018. I don’t think anybody disputes that, although you can always say, “Well, I raised twelve dollars.”

PFAFF [00:23:54] Yeah, well, listen, he could have –. El Paso County is an absolutely necessary County for us in this state. I don’t care how bad the election is, if you can’t –. And Mike Coffman wasn’t running ads against Donald Trump down in Colorado Springs. He was running them up in the Denver metro area. And certainly, there’s some bleed over. But if you can’t get Republicans out to vote in El Paso County, you’re failing. I don’t care who you are. This is about winning. It’s not about being able to say what good motives I had on the back end to try to do good things for Republicans. It’s about doing things. And that’s something he has not done.

HAYDEN [00:24:34] And well then here’s again to go back to because I want to kind of focus now on what you’re trying to get done. What we saw happen in this last legislative session and what we saw what you guys this Colorado Republican caucuses what you were able to do and you’re fighting against it. That’s why it’s so important right. So they pass is a horrible red flag Bill. You guys at least by standing firm and standing together were able to and we’ll see what happens. But final lawsuit right you were able to use sort of the process against the Democrats and say OK hey look you didn’t read it out loud which the rules say. So now you have a reason to do that. As I said earlier you know Jared Polis they don’t. They know that the citizens of Colorado don’t want to get rid of TABOR particularly since they’re going to be getting a refund here a tax refund. So they foolishly voted the Democrats did to put it on the ballot. They’re trying to weasel around that now pollers was going to call a special session. And again the unity and your ability to to be. But you know not just pushovers. Basically you were able to stop that as well so.

BONNIWELL [00:25:34] Well, let’s give them more credit. I mean, you know, as I’ve always said, the Republican Party is a Republican party is the party of stupid.  There are a lot of stupid people in the Republican [unintelligible–crosstalk].

HAYDEN [00:25:41] But not these guys!

BONNIWELL [00:25:43] And so, you know, you can just see the governor — who’s a very bright person — kind of [say to himself], “I know! I’ll get my friend Alan Loeffler and he’ll just con those stupid hicks and then they’ll think they’ve got something and [unintelligible–crosstalk].

HAYDEN [00:25:57] [Impersonating the con-artist, Alan Loeffler, presumably]  We’ll give them three nickles in exchange for a quarter!”.

BONNIWELL [00:25:57] –in exchange for a quarter!  And they’ll think, “Oh, goody!”.

HAYDEN [00:25:57] We have three!

BONNIWELL [00:25:57] And I — honestly, that would work for 90% of Republicans. They’d go, “Oh, yeah! Yeah! Let me have the three nickels!”  And you know, Joshua Hosler is — a former GOP leader — is not here to tell you that Antifa or Planned Parenthood is the state’s Taliban.

HAYDEN [00:26:20] Right.

BONNIWELL [00:26:20] He spends all his time talking with a few groups that actually goes out and gets Republicans — Rocky Mountain Gun Owners. Are they perfect? No, but — Gee! Why is it that the cartel never have articles attacking their quote/unquote ‘opponents,’ but –.

HAYDEN [00:26:39] The real opponents!

BONNIWELL [00:26:39] Well, we are their real opponents.

HAYDEN [00:26:39] Well, yeah. Yeah.

BONNIWELL [00:26:39] But I mean, it’s so typical. It’s so typical.  And it — and it’s — you know, I don’t know. I also noticed — guess who his good friend is.

HAYDEN [00:26:54] Who.

BONNIWELL [00:26:54] Just guess.

HAYDEN [00:26:54] Whose good friend.

BONNIWELL [00:26:54] Joshua’s.

HAYDEN [00:26:54]  Bob Beauprez.  No. Who?

BONNIWELL [00:26:54] We met him at the Republican –at the Western Conservative Summit?  First name Steve?

HAYDEN [00:26:54] Oh! Steve Dorman? Dornman?  Oh, yeah, [the guy] who attack us. Hey, Jim, we got a phone — we won’t go there. That’s a whole other story.

BONNIWELL [00:27:08] No, it’s great! I mean, you know, Steve Dorman is his big buddy. I mean, wow! They all travel together, don’t they?

HAYDEN [00:27:17] We have a phone call from Charlene on this. Jim, can you take a phone call on this, real quick?

PFAFF [00:27:19] Sure, gladly.

HAYDEN [00:27:22] Okay. Jim Pfaff here, Chuck and Julie. Charlene calling in.

BONNIWELL [00:27:27] Charlene.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:27:27] It sounds like the Republican establishment is taking a tip from the playbook of the Democrats who actually bully themselves and then they accuse the other side of bullying.

BONNIWELL [00:27:37] Yeah, yeah.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:27:39] And what it reminds me of, is, you know, the — Jim Acosta in the press conference where they accused Gorka of being a bully, when really they were bullying him! And he was just defending himself!

HAYDEN [00:27:50] Right.

BONNIWELL [00:27:51] Exactly. Good point. Good point.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:27:52] And you know, it’s like, you know — it just seems like a concerted effort on the part of the establishment, because they see all the grassroots momentum out there. They see we’re giving to movements like Recall Polis, and all the recall efforts. And it’s not going to the Republican party.

HAYDEN [00:28:12] RIght.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:28:12] And that bothers them. So, they’re trying to nip it in the bud with this. And I just appreciate Patrick Neville. And he is really standing up for conservatives. And I think this is a poor attempt on the part of the old wing of the party. And you know, Hosler has a little cadre of bullies himself on Facebook. They actually posted my home address on Facebook, along with–.

BONNIWELL [00:28:39] You’re kidding!

HAYDEN [00:28:39] You’re kidding!

BONNIWELL [00:28:39] You’re kidding!

CALLER CHARLENE [00:28:39] I’m serious.  Jake Viano did, along with my voter registration.

HAYDEN [00:28:39] That doesn’t seem very nice.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:28:49] well, I called him out on it.

PFAFF [00:28:49] You know, there is some precedent to that.  There’s some precedent to that, because that’s what Democrats did to shame the financial supporters of Proposition 8 in California, which was their marriage amendment effort. They went out and built a Google Maps — they put pin points on Google maps so that every person in California could same the people who supported the Marriage Amendment. Now, no matter where you stand on that issue, that’s really fundamentally absurd in a free society, to try to shame people for their opinions. To oppose them, ardently and firmly — absolutely. But to do that kind of shame–  the methodology has been common throughout history and it always leads to disaster. And it’s shameful that they would put your address out like that to shame you.  They’re the ones that should be shamed.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:29:49] Yes, and then I asked him to take it down. And he did, and he said, “Well, I was just posting your affiliation,” — which, I’m unaffiliated now. And I thought, “You could have done that all day long and blacked out my address,” you know. So anyway, they–.

HAYDEN [00:30:03] You know, here’s the thing — you’re right.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:30:04] So, anyway, they–.

HAYDEN [00:30:04] Well, let me just comment on that, Charlene.  You know, I mean, I was in the TV world for a long time, and you would always run into documents had had people’s names and addresses and things like they had on it, right? And we always took that very responsibly because we all know — I’m sorry, but there are — and not just Hosler, but real nut jobs out there, right? — and people who could use that to try to cause harm to somebody or scare them, right? And so it’s just — it’s — it’s dangerous to be doing that. And then in TV world— well, I was just going to say, we worked really hard to not. And for somebody in those positions, to think that — to do it deliberately, to bully you to try to make you be quiet — there’s — that’s more Taliban-like than anything!

CALLER CHARLENE [00:30:50] Exactly! Exactly. And then he said it was an accident. And you know, it was a cross between boorishness and maliciousness, in my opinion. He did it, and then he asked for permission later.

HAYDEN [00:31:00] [scoffs].

 

CALLER CHARLENE [00:31:00] And you know, that’s the sort of thing that you deal with if you go against the establishment.

HAYDEN [00:31:05] Right.

BONNIWELL [00:31:05] No, they’re vicious.

CALLER CHARLENE [00:31:08] And then they go against — and then they say, “Oh, you’re bullying me!” And then they run off to their safe space — you know, just like a Democrat would. And so, I* don’t know if they’re trying to use those tactics like the Democrats use, but it’s just not going to work with Republicans because Republicans are tough people. We interchange [exchange] information. I mean, we interchange [exchange] opinions. And we don’t call it bullying. You know, we just let them know what we think. And so, I’m just flabbergasted that Joshua would push this. And he’s a former officeholder, and there’s a cadre of 3 or 4 former officeholders. And so I think they’ve just been set free to do what they want.

BONNIWELL [00:31:50] Well, [to do] what they’ve been paid to do.

HAYDEN [00:31:53] Yeah. Hey, Charlene, thank you for your call. And thank you for all that you do. Jim, we have got to take another quick break to check on the news, so everybody hang on. We’ll get to the other phone calls when we come back. You’re listening to Chuck and Julie on Newstalk 710 KNUS.

[00:32:06] [commercial break].

BONNIWELL [00:32:06] Chuck Boniwell, Julie Hayden here at 710 KNUS and we’re thrilled to have with us Jim Pfaff, who is the chief of staff for Patrick Neville and the House Republicans who are doing just a tremendous job.  And I guess I’ve gotten a better understanding why this attack would come now, because we talked to Matt Arnold and he says that your Values First PAC is tearing ’em up!

HAYDEN [00:32:33] [laughs] Everybody — all the Republicans — it’s like what Charlene said, Jim. It’s like people are saying, “Hey, look, I’m just going to give to the candidates or the causes that I know support what I support.”

PFAFF [00:32:45] Yeah. If — I’m going to tell you something: because of Pat’s leadership, because of all that happened in this last session, and I have got to give credit to the entire caucus too, because they stood together on the key issues under Pat’s leadership, people are excited about that. I mean, they’re just waiting for people to get involved. You know, when I read the marriage amendment in 2006 — and again, this is a different electorate. I’m not trying to make a one-to-one comparison, here — I’m just talking about fundamentally. When I ran that,we were outspent 6 to 1. We spent all of our effort — the majority of our efforts — in building a grassroots campaign with 500 people on the phone, calling our targeted quarter million people, to get them out to vote, to get registered to vote — this is before mail balloting — getting them physically out to vote. And they responded to it because the message was right. And we worked it hard. But they were excited about it because we gave them a real choice on the ballot. Now this is a real opportunity for us to make great gains in the House. And people are responding to that with their dollars.

BONNIWELL [00:33:58] Yeah, well, that’s great!

PFAFF [00:33:58] They’re doing that now.

BONNIWELL [00:33:58] Hey, do you file your report today? Is today the reporting day?

PFAFF [00:34:00] Uhh, I know it’s coming close, and –.

HAYDEN [00:34:08] That’s why they’ve got Matt there.

PFAFF [00:34:09] I’m going to give Joe Neville the biggest part of the credit for Values First. I’m from the caucus. Joe is running that. I mean, he’s doing a tremendous job of it. And I think it is very soon. But look, without leadership we will not have victory.  And leadership is not: “Okay, here we are. We’re the leaders.And not you have got to come follow us.”  No, no, no, no, no. You have to provide leader–. And that’s what many people — in what we would call the establishment RINO class in this state — they just demand that we go ahead and do what they tell us to do. No! You’ve got to show leadership first. And then things will change.

BONNIWELL [00:34:46] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

HAYDEN [00:34:46] That’s right.

BONNIWELL [00:34:46] All right. Let’s go to a phone call. We’ve got–.

PFAFF [00:34:46] I have–. And by the way–. Oh, sorry about that.

BONNIWELL [00:34:46] We’ve got a phone call from Delhi, India.

HAYDEN [00:34:56] Anil Mathai,–.

BONNIWELL [00:34:56] No! It’s Philadelphia. I’m sorry. I read that wrong.

HAYDEN [00:34:56] — former Adams County Republican Party Chairperson.  Hey, Anil!

FORMER ADAMS COUNTY GOP CHAIRMAN, ANIL MATHAI [00:35:03] Hey! Good afternoon. I just want to say, Chuck and Julie, Pat and Jim — they’re outstanding. They support our platform. They’re the true conservatives. And I just wanted to get on the radio and say, you know, to people, what Jim is going through and others are going through, this is how the establishment operates. I will say very clearly with a clear conscience that on May 10th of last year I was vindicated in court with a false attack, as you are aware of. And the attorney for that person was a former state party chairman. And within that day, or possiblly it might have been a day or two –.

BONNIWELL [00:35:31] Who was that?  Who was that?

MATHAI [00:35:32] It was — the former state chairman was Ryan Call, who was the attorney against me.

BONNIWELL [00:35:36] Right, right, right, right.

MATHAI [00:35:36] And so, within that time, this El Paso County chairman filed the complaint that was already exonerated from where I so-called ‘interfered’ in their county elections there. And I know state party bylaws. I was on the Executive Committee. I know county party bylaws. And so, to date, I’ve never gotten the original e-mails that this person sent to Jeff Hays. And Hays sends me a word copy of what this complaint was sent, never sent me the original e-mail. And so this is how they operate. And people in Colorado need to understand, the establishment is not on our side, they are they are basically crooks. They want money. They don’t care about the Republican platform. I’m glad that Jim went on the radio and is sharing this, because he’s an outstanding guy. He and I worked together.  When he was Douglas County chairman, I was Adams [County Chairman]. So just keep supporting Patrick and everyone who are platform oriented. These are the rock solid conservatives.  And kick these other people out of the way because they are Democrats within the Republican Party.

BONNIWELL [00:36:27] All right! All right, Anil!  You’re fired up today, back in Philly!

HAYDEN [00:36:30]  Thank you, Anil. Thank you for calling.

BONNIWELL [00:36:33] No higher praise from no better a person.

HAYDEN [00:36:35] No, and he knows firsthand a little bit, Jim, too. As you said, you know, it’s not–.

BONNIWELL [00:36:40] He got treated down and dirty by the establishment,–

HAYDEN [00:36:42] Right. And so, Jim, listen–.

BONNIWELL [00:36:43] –or the cartel.  And they’re called the cartel for a reason because they really do–.

HAYDEN [00:36:47] One last question for you, Jim, and now I’ll ask this on behalf of the caller there, becasue we only have about a minute. How can people donate to the cause?

BONNIWELL [00:36:55] Yeah, and Denver wants to know how she can contribute.

PFAFF [00:36:59] Well, they — they, uh — they need to go to, uh — I’m sorry, my mind is lost [unintelligible].

HAYDEN [00:37:06] Oh! Okay, and we’ll figure that out. He will text me after.

BONNIWELL [00:37:06] We’ll figure it out.

PFAFF [00:37:07] Yeah, I’m sorry, go ahead.

HAYDEN [00:37:07] I was going to say, Jim, why don’t you text it to me afterwards.  No, I know, we just totally threw you with that question.

PFAFF [00:37:15] Yeah, really.

HAYDEN [00:37:15] Text it to me afterwards, and we’ll get that information for you here in the next couple of minutes. Let me just — I know — we’re running out of time. I’m sorry that we don’t even have more. But thank you for coming on the air today.

BONNIWELL [00:37:27] Yeah, you’ve been great, Jim.

PFAFF [00:37:29] Oh, thanks. Thanks for having me, and listen, I appreciate what you guys are doing. I mean, you’ve really — you make a big difference in this state because you’re getting the information out there that people have got to hear and understand and that our base — who cares — want to hear. They want to know that they’re supported. They want someone to help them understand what’s frustrating them. And you guys do that so well, Steffan does,  Peter does, just –it’s just incredible. You’ve been a tremendous help to Patrick and people know that Patrick’s a real leader now because every one of you guys have given him an opportunity just to be seen for the tremendous work he’s doing. And I left working on Capitol Hill in D.C. because Patrick’s a guy we’re supporting and I wanted to bring everything that I could to help him be successful and to help this caucus [unintelligible–crosstalk] We’ve done a lot so far, and we’ve got a lot more to do.

HOST JULIE HAYDEN [00:38:21] All right.

BONNIWELL [00:38:21] [We] appreciate you coming on, and we wish you the best. All right. Take care, Jim.

HOST JULIE HAYDEN [00:38:21] All right. We’ve got to go. Thank you. We be right back after this.