Station:    KNUS, 710 am

Show:       Peter Boyles Show

Guests:    Brown, Dudley

Link:        https://peterboyles.podbean.com/e/red-flags-and-cool-cars-jul-10-2019-hr-4/

Date:       July 10, 2019

Topics:           Joshua Hosler, Josh Hosler, Dudley Brown, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, RMGO, Patrick Neville, House Minority Leader, Chief of Staff, Primary, Primarying, Primaried, Cole Wist, El Paso County GOP, Adams County GOP, Centennial, Second Amendment, 2A, Red Flag Law, Colorado’s Taliban, Threats, Threatening, Political threats, physical threats, Cory Gardner, Western Conservative Summit, Rules Committee, Colorado Pioneer Action, Chicago-style Politics, Weld County Sheriff Steve Reams

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HOST PETER BOYLES [00:00:00] This has been an ongoing struggle. Rocky Mountain Gun Owners is one of the best organizations and in it is a man who’s become a good friend, Dudley Brown. And we spoke with Dudley earlier this week, when he represents gun owners. And we were talking about red flagging. And now, this editorial in The Denver Post appears, and it takes aim — written by the former chairman of the El Paso County GOP — calling these guys ‘the Colorado Taliban,’ and that they use Chicago style tactics. It was — its border line — well, it speaks to the Republican Party. Dudley joins us. And by the way,  late last night — or, late yesterday evening, I should say, early in the evening –it has been announced that Cory Gardner has had a sea change and will indeed attend the Western Conservative Summit. Dudley, representing RMGO, welcome back to the radio show, brother!

PRESIDENT OF ROCKY MOUNTAIN GUN OWNERS, DUDLEY BROWN [00:00:57] Well, thank you, Peter. Thanks for having me on.

BOYLES [00:00:59] I don’t even know where to begin. I –. Let’s take on why the Republican Party would call you — the organization, RMGO — Colorado’s Taliban, using Chicago style tactics. [If] you want to see Chicago style tactics, look what Michael Hancock did to Jamie Giellis, making her into Lester Maddox. I mean, that’s Chicago style. So, I know — what you want to–.

BROWN [00:01:23] Yeah. Well, let’s take it in context.  The opinion editorial was was submitted by a former El Paso County GOP Chair. And I wouldn’t even call him the Republican Party. I’d call him a very, very minor player for a very short time. He’s a failed statehouse candidate who was rejected by his district. And I think he had — he’s a little butt hurt because we we endorsed his opponent, who — State Representative Dave Williams — has become one of the leading conservatives in the state capitol. And so, you know, 25 years of working in politics — well, actually it’s more than that, but 25 years as a gun lobbyist — I’ve learned that you can’t take too seriously your critics, thought I will be the first to tell you, you know, our organization and myself we’ve made plenty of mistakes. And in some of them, we have come out and said, “Yeah, we made the mistake.”  [In] some of them, we move on.  But one mistake we’ve not not made was that was compromise. And that’s really what Joshua Hosler is upset about, is we’re an organization that doesn’t cut deals and doesn’t compromise. Now, in the case of his opinion editorial, where he decries the fact that we don’t play on the Republican team, look, I’m a Republican. I was a delegate to the 2012 and 2016 national conventions. I’ve even sat on the committees that meet beforehand, including the Rules Committee in 2012, and that was elected by — I was working at the state conventions. But, yes, I’m a Republican but Rocky Mountain Gun Owners is not a Republican arm — it’s not the pro-gun arm of the Republican Party. It’s not some kind of secondary group that the state Republican committee can tellus what to do. We’re — we are a nonpartisan independent 501(c)4 nonprofit, and our job is to represent gun owners.

BOYLES [00:03:51] Oh, I know!

BROWN [00:03:52] And the way you represent gun owners, frankly, is to draw some pretty tough lines in the sand and dare people to step over it. And that’s what we do.

BOYLES [00:04:04] I –.  Our guest is the one and only Dudley Brown, [of] Rocky Mountain Gun Owners on gun owners. But the point of it is, when the editorial was written, they cite him as [the] former chair of the El Paso GOP.   He– is he speaking for himself? Or is he speaking for — as a Republican, or a combination of the two?

BROWN [00:04:25] I’ll give him credit: he is speaking for the left side of the Republican Party.

BOYLES [00:04:31] No, the dominant! They’re the dominant Colorado politics.

BROWN [00:04:34] Yeah, we call that ‘the establishment.’ He he might as well admit that Bob Beauprez is his puppet master.

BOYLES [00:04:42] Sure, there you are.

BROWN [00:04:42] That is who he has worked for in the past.

BOYLES [00:04:42] Yeah.

BROWN [00:04:42] In fact, when Matt Arnold — the kind of campaign finance watchdog — dug deep about Bob Beauprez’s group, Colorado Pioneer Action, and was digging into what they did, they actually questioned Josh Hosler on the stand. And he’s basically a leftward Republican, who frequently brings out the, “I’m a Marine — I’m former Marine. I did this, I did that.” And look, I — I don’t give — I don’t harass him or–. I certainly say nothing but positive about being a Marine. And, um, good for him! You know, I’m not critical of him for that, of course. But that doesn’t mean anything he says somehow has credibility. That means nothing. There are a lot of people in politics who’ve served in the military and had distinguished careers and who are flaming leftists. And, um—.

BOYLES [00:05:51] Yeah, but it’s not the point! I mean, it’s not the point. The point is they chose his editorial. And again, I know a little about newspapers — I don’t know everything about it. But when you — he had to, one way or the other — he’s certainly invited on the show.  But one way or the other, to call you guys the Taliban, and Chicago-style tactics, of all places to appear in The Denver Post!  But the little I know, they probably submitted this and The Denver Post, you know, gleefully prints it because of their politics.

BROWN [00:06:24] No, and they did call — I did get a call from The Denver Post about it, with an option to respond. And of course, you know, they did say, “You can write an op-ed.” And who knows, maybe we will — not necessarily from [responding to] this little guy who is not much of a player. But I want to zero in on two things. He claims — he claims bullying. Let’s define what ‘bullying’ is in politics. Because this is not the same thing as bullying in the schoolyard, or, for that matter, as he claims, the Taliban bullying people. That’s not bullying.  That’s just murder, shooting people and sacking villages. Bullying in politics is using your angles and in this case, with Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, connecting with our members to use their grassroots pressure to push politicians into doing what we need them to do, which is defend the damn second amendment — not be pussies!  Sorry, but it’s a it’s a big problem. The Republican Party has very little spine. And frankly, somebody has got to give it to them.

BOYLES [00:07:44] Dudley, that’s — this is my point of all of it, is–.  I try to make the case — and we talked about it earlier — we had with us the one and only John Lott.

BROWN [00:07:54] Yep.

BOYLES [00:07:54] You know, for eight years, the Bush family said nothing about Barack Obama. Now, Donald Trump hits the ground. They attack him. They claim that Bill Clinton is like their son. Now, both of the elder Bushes are gone. Not to speak ill will of the dead as my grandmother would say, however, the policies that put a Walker Stapleton out there, that put a Mike Coffman out there — and I’ll tell you what, I know in and of itself, it’s significant that out of the clear blue of the western skies, I’ve said Cory Gardner makes a huge pronouncement, he will suddenly now show up at the Western Conservative Summit. They got problems — huge problems –inside that party. But why they cannot –.

BROWN [00:08:43] Well –.

BOYLES [00:08:43] Go ahead, I’m sorry. You say.

BROWN [00:08:44] Well, let’s — you know, the Republican Party in Colorado, and I’ve been working in it since, really, 1989 and on a regular basis, I have to say. And it can be very frustrating. But remember, it was a really different party back then. I think the frustration for both Bob Beauprez and little players like Josh were hustlers is that the party has moved pretty substantially to the right on gods and that’s been due to us you know setting all Humility aside Rocky Mountain Gun Owners. The group was given those given them a spine and I think Greg Brophy former state senator talks has talked about that frequently. But our job is to is to let them know that when you cross these lines, we don’t care what party you’re from. In fact, in some cases, Peter, doesn’t discipline begin at home?

BOYLES [00:09:53] Well let me — let me come back to this.

BROWN [00:09:55] I mean, if you can’t keep the Republican Party, forget the winning in the legislature. That’s the only place you’re going to — you know  –to establish a beachhead. And so, yeah, we’re very active in primaries — always have been.

BOYLES [00:10:08] From Rocky Mount gun owners Our guest is Dudley Brown. To go further, to talk about the Republican Party, there’s a guy named Cole Wist — W-I-S-T. He’s a Republican. He’s come out and said that Rocky Mountain Gun Owners “carpet bombed my house district.

BROWN [00:10:26] [laughs]. Yeah!

BOYLES [00:10:26] No no no. Let me finish it up. He said, “It’s unfortunate but crystal clear, Rocky Mountain Gun Owners owns the Colorado Republican Party”  NO!

BROWN [00:10:34] Well I don’t know if —  If we own the Republican party entirely, you know, some of the RINOS that are there in there wouldn’t be there. But, we do have an influence over the Republican Party in many ways. And I think we we have an influence over the Democrat Party. They don’t want to really pick fights with us. They’d rather not that they have a constituency they have to live up to as well on the far left. So but I think the point about like for instance Cole Wist,  is this is a former and disgraced state legislator who went completely against his party’s base and then wondered why he lost in 2018. And you know, I had people within his district calling me up and saying it’s too late to run in a primary against him. I would have — many of them would have primaried him.  And I’m telling those people you might get your chance because it sounds like he might try to go for a state Senate seat now, which I’ve heard that’s the case. It would be interesting.

BOYLES [00:11:45] Our guest our guest from Rocky Mount Gunner’s Our guest is the one and only Dudley Brown Dudley Brown when it because he’s going to be one of the instructors or teachers on the 24th. I wonder if you knew this from but the thing maxed out at 70 people when they’re loading up the August class for the same thing and because of limited time this morning, you’re one of the best to speak on red flag. Dudley, who has standing to an act a red flag raid on my house or your house or anyone listening? Who has standing with the judge to throw the flag?

BROWN [00:12:24] Virtually anyone.

BOYLES [00:12:26] Yeah.

BROWN [00:12:27] Anyone who claims they have any connection you Peter on and and the worst part about it all. It might be happening right now. It can happen at any moment. You don’t know about it. It’s called ex parte Tay filings in court and it means that those someone can bring information let’s say you. You went on Tinder and went out on a date with someone and imagine that it didn’t you know I just didn’t click or frankly I thought she wasn’t that prettier or maybe she didn’t like your politics. And you and you know you got to agree. You both just walked out of the restaurant and said OK OK let’s wait save some time and. She could easily go and file a red flag saying well that guy’s a gun kook and I know he’s got guns and he acts pretty deranged to me you know because he thinks there are two genders and and boom you could be in court. You don’t know about it. They’re filing it and then they’re coming to your door.

BOYLES [00:13:36] Will there be lawyers or law firms that pop up whose job will be to do that to you know your ex wife’s brother or as you point out former lovers or will there be law firms. And I just talked to somebody about this last night. Well for the big law firms that have come into being in January that just do exactly that. You pay them to do the heavy lifting to the judge to get some guy red flagged. Do you believe that’s going to happen?

BROWN [00:14:09] Sure. It already — that kind of stuff already happens with restraining orders. You know many attorneys have their pat and standard filings and templates already made for restraining orders and they just get a new client and they don’t have to reinvent the wheel. They just recycled them, “insert name here.”  So that — of course they’re going to do this.

BOYLES [00:14:35] Yeah. This because it’s not a restraining order. I mean I know somebody that gave me had a conversation with yesterday,  we were talking about this, about — this is not a restraining order because you’re not involved. And to the best of your knowledge, you know, you’re just fat and happy and sitting the house and boom! the door gets kicked or there are there’s a knock on the door. Could go either way. But somebody that maybe hasn’t been in your life for six months, a year, or six years, or they can — as someone said — drop a dime on you from New York.

BROWN [00:15:03] Well, yes, they can do it. And that’s a great point Peter — that I neglected to mention. They can do it via phone.

BOYLES [00:15:10] Yeah! Right!

BROWN [00:15:10]  You know you don’t have to be in court. The accuser can do it via phone.

BOYLES [00:15:14] That’s why I ask about the law firms that can do this for you.

BROWN [00:15:20] I think it’s pretty easy — [iit’s] pretty obvious that the many people are going to get red flag. And of course I’m anticipating that you know people will create things about me.

BOYLES [00:15:31] Oh, really? I’m shocked!

BROWN [00:15:32]  Yeah. Imagine that. I mean that what appeared in The Denver Post, somebody creating a whole series of — claiming threats, and which of course that’s the silliest part about that editorial, to get back to that,  was you know, we don’t physically threaten. We threaten in politics. And we don’t just threaten, we carry it out. So all that bullying, if you will, our job is to do that. But the the the concern about red flag is that it will be done — it could be done via a phone. It’s largely a plug-in play for for aggressive attorneys and let’s face it. You know like a divorce proceeding.

BOYLES [00:16:15] Oh, yeah! You bet!  Well, that’s what came up.

BROWN [00:16:16] Oh it’s a perfect thing to use because BOOM! Now it’s — now it’s going to be involved in it as evidence in the divorce proceeding. “Oh! well, he got his guns confiscated by a lower standard–.

BOYLES [00:16:29] Yes!

BROWN [00:16:30] “–than is normal with a restraining order”

BOYLES [00:16:32] And the other part of it. I appear in front of the judge in — is it? It’s two weeks, right? And I have this. Yes. I know you well enough to say this about myself, to tell the judge I’m not crazy. Now I couldn’t do that.

BROWN [00:16:48] [laughs].

BOYLES [00:16:48] I couldn’t appear before anybody. And you know like, I have a running gag with my children and luckily my kids are like the very very best ever. I just — they’re they’re terrific.  And I always had this saying when they were little, I said, you know, they like they’re — they stuck up a bank right. And they’re standing in front of a judge and a judge said, “Who’s your father again?” [laughs] And so I can’t imagine you of all people standing in front of Judge Fill-in-the-blank, trying to explain how Dudley Brown is not nuts.  Good luck! Good luck with that!

BROWN [00:17:24] Yeah, and I mean — yeah, I think the other big concern is that two weeks later you know to get your guns back the the level of evidence that’s required and proof is actually higher than it was to take them personally.

BOYLES [00:17:42] Precisely, yeah.

 [00:17:43] And so I –and so I–.  But you know to those of us with kids and families or what — you know,, family troubles which is basically everybody on the planet –you have — the big concern though is what can be used by people who don’t like you.

BOYLES [00:18:02] Exactly.

BROWN [00:18:05] And it really remains to be seen in Colorado what that will look like. But you know from our perspective the guns are something we worked very hard to defend. However it’s pretty low on the totem pole when you consider that this can be used in a great number of ways to harm people and not just taking your guns.

BOYLES [00:18:28] No, it has nothing to do with anything except taking your guns and getting you a jacket, as the cops call it — that you got hit, that you got raided.

BROWN [00:18:36] Hey you. The other thing that that would be interesting — I don’t know if you’ve had Sheriff Reams on. And Sheriff Steve Reams from Weld County makes a great point. And in one of his great points about about this red flag issue, is he makes a very clear distinction.  As a sheriff, he’s he’s being told he has to — quotes — “go out in serve these.”  But they’re actually civil actions. they’re not criminal actions. So this is not serving an actual normal restraining order that’s in the — within the criminal caseload for courts. This is actually serving what is a relatively new concept in a civil action. And so that’s one of the reasons he said, “I can’t do this.” Not only does he not want to do this he says, “I can’t do this!” And I think law enforcement has to look and say, “Really? How can I actually cross that line?” In many cases, my view is that this is a true test of specially elected sheriffs. They have the guts!

BOYLES [00:19:52] Dudley, I’m on the clock. We’ll talk again. I know we talked this afternoon but I know Dudley is going to be there on the 24th to be part of teaching that night. And the one thing that’s –I’m trying to learn — is who has what’s called standing that can actually enact red flag and your response is, “Damned near anyone.”.

BROWN [00:20:16] Damned near anyone.

BOYLES [00:20:17] And for people in near here and the people — and they can either knock or no knock and these are all, you know–. All right. We will talk, my friend. Dudley, thank you very much for the time. Thanks to the organization.

BROWN [00:20:29] Thank you Peter.

BOYLES [00:20:31] All right, man.  We go to a moment turn around here and then John Freeman from Meecham will come on the show. Give this some time you guys. Here’s one for you.