Peter Boyles Show, Tom Mauser & Mike McAlpine, October 25, 2013
Station: KNUS, 710 AM
Show: Peter Boyles Show
Guests: Mauser, McAlpine
Link: http://peterboyles.podbean.com/
Date: October 25, 2013
Topics: Hudak Recall, Daniel Mauser, Columbine Shooting, Tucson Shooting, NRA, Koch Brothers, Chicago, Gun laws, Gun Control, Pro-gun Activists, Capitol Hearings, Senator Evie Hudak, Pueblo, Colorado Springs, Senate President John Morse, Senator Angela Giron, Michael Bloomberg,
HOST PETER BOYLES: We’ve known each other Long time friend, roots in Pennsylvania, he suffered a horrible loss in his life, requested to come on show, and we are more than willing to oblige with anything you request. “Tell me—tell the audience why you wanted to be on the show.
FATHER OF COLUMBINE VICTIM AND GUN SAFETY ADVOCATE TOM MAUSER: Well, you know Peter, I heard the interview that you had with the leader of the Recall Hudak campaign. And I was really bothered by a comment that he made, and you didn’t seem to challenge it at all, referring to the people who were out there opposing the recall as goons and brownshirts.
BOYLES: Actually, be careful. I said “goons”, caller said “brownshirts”. Mike McAlpine did not say that.
MAUSER: Okay. Ummm.
BOYLES: Does that–? Let me pause you and back you up. You made the charge against the guy, with respect for you, he didn’t say it. Now, will you retract?
MAUSER: I was at one of the sites. I was a volunteer.
BOYLES: That’s not my question, Tom.
What?
BOYLES: You accused McAlpine of saying it. I said “goons”. A caller said “brownshirts”
MAUSER: Oh, okay. Yeah.
BOYLES: Would you retract that from Mike? That’s all I’m asking. Tom?
MAUSER: Would I retract it?
BOYLES: Yeah. Would you retract that he didn’t say that.
MAUSER: He did say “Brownshirts”.
BOYLES: No, he didn’t.
MAUSER: What did he say?
BOYLES: Well, I don’t –. Hey, I – a caller said “brownshirts”. I remember it. You want to get Mike –call Mike up.
MAUSER: Oh, okay, Oh, it was a caller that said it?
BOYLES: Yeah. A caller said it. He didn’t say it.
MAUSER: Okay. Okay. But “goons”. Okay, I’ll go with “goons”.
BOYLES: I—and I – I said goons.
MAUSER: Okay. I was one of those people out there. And I don’t consider myself a goon. And I don’t consider the people who were around me to be goons.
BOYLES: Were you blocking — Were you blocking people from getting out of their cars?
MAUSER: No.
BOYLES: Well then, but we got pictures of people doing that. Or, who–?
MAUSER: I saw one picture on your website. I can’t tell anything from– that they were blocking somebody
BOYLES: Tom, I don’t — . Tom! I’ll get you witnesses. Now, would you call them goons for blocking people who want to come and sign the petition?
MAUSER: I would say what they did was not what we were trained – what they were trained to do.
BOYLES: I don’t care a rat’s rear end what they were trained to do. I’m asking you a legitimate question. Are they goons?
MAUSER: No. They’re not goons.
BOYLES: Oh! So, I see. So, I guy says their goons, and that’s –.
MAUSER: Okay, Mike—
BOYLES: All right. [inaudible—something like, “Read ‘Beauty’”]
MAUSER: [correcting himself] Peter, I will tell you who are goons, and it’s –. Goons are the people who have been treating me like crap for the last fourteen years.
BOYLES: That’s not these guys! Who’s been—who’s been—who’s–?
MAUSER: Oh, it is these guys. Or not these guys, specifically. I can’t tell you who these guys are.
BOYLES: Tom, but then, who are the goons?
MAUSER: But I can tell you – I mean, come on, Peter! We have seen the behavior some of these folks down at the state capitol. I’ve seen their behavior over the past 14 years – the hate mail, the things they have done to hurt harass me.
BOYLES: Tom! Tom. Tom. I understand.
MAUSER: So, when they say that they want us to be polite, when they say there’s voter intimidation, I mean, they know all about intimidation because they practice it all the time!
BOYLES: Tommy, with all respect to you and everything that you’ve been through, what I saw, the arrogance. When I went down and witnessed when the progressive party – I take it, your party — was running through all the things that now have gotten them recalled, they never paid a dime’s worth of attention to anybody in the audience, to anybody who wanted to talk to them. You know they ram-rodded. You know they steamrolled people. And that was Hudak. That was Morse. That was Giron. That was the Governor.
MAUSER: But – but, if people expect that you’re going to provide unlimited time for testimony–. I was down there for the testimony, Peter, were you?
BOYLES: I was there for two days.
MAUSER: Okay. Did you hear a lot of different arguments, or did you hear the same thing from the people who were testifying ?
BOYLES: So, why –
MAUSER: It’s always been tradition down there, they ask people – both parties –
BOYLES: Mm-hmm.
MAUSER: — if you’ve got something new to say, say it. If you’re just going to repeat something, you know, don’t testify.
BOYLES: Oh. Well, that–.
MAUSER: But what we heard were the same arguments over and over.
BOYLES: Well, that – then, that would have –.
MAUSER: But they want – they think that because they can speak – they want to be able to speak, you know, on and on and on, and that’s supposed to stop the process. You can’t stop the process.
BOYLES: Hell of a thing. It’s a hell of a thing to want to –. What is the process? Let’s take away people’s guns?
MAUSER: No! None of these laws are about taking away people’s guns.
BOYLES: Well, come on! These are –.
MAUSER: And yet, that’s what — Come on, Peter! I mean, we’ve got eighty-five – eighty-four percent of Coloradoans supporting background checks. Seventy percent of Coloradans voted for Amendment 22 in 2000. You know that! They supported background checks.
BOYLES: Tommy, I –I’m –.
MAUSER: The majority of people support limits on magazines.
BOYLES: But hang on a minute. Tom, wait a second. Limits on magazines is stuff that the progressives came up with. You know that and I know that. And limits on magazines wouldn’t have stopped anything that happened at Columbine, and you know that and I know that. The purchase of those guns that horrible day, was done –. And you should look at those kinds of issues. And I agree with you! You and I know that. We have had lunch together, we have talked about it. But what I see the Hudak’s of the world aiming at, is –. Or maybe a better question is to ask you, “How would you like gun laws to look in the United States of America, or the state of Colorado?” I’ll turn it over to you. Tell the audience what you would like it to look like.
MAUSER: I do support limits on magazines, Peter.
BOYLES: And?
MAUSER: Not because of Columbine, but because of a lot of other situations.
BOYLES: For instance?
MAUSER: So, for examp–. In Tucson. In Tucson, it was when he was changing magazines that he was stopped. It was when he was changing.
BOYLES: Tom, Tom, this guy–.
MAUSER: So the question is, do you want a lunatic –. No, let me finish, Peter. Do you want a lunatic to have a 30- or a 100-round magazine, or do you want them to have a 15? And I want to save lives, –.
BOYLES: Okay, let me come back there.
MAUSER: — so yeah, I only want them to have a 15, because I don’t want them to get that many rounds off into a crowd.
BOYLES: Tom, The killer– the shooter and killer in Arizona was throwing up so many flags that no one ever stopped – no academic ever stopped him, no one ever stopped him. He got crazier and crazier and crazier. Now, having said that, you take all the people out here who have magazines, and you’re condemning everyone of them, Tom.
MAUSER: I’m not condemning them.
BOYLES: Of course you are! Of course you are!
MAUSER: I’m asking them to –.
BOYLES: Tom, you just told us –.
MAUSER: I’m asking them to participate—
BOYLES: Then, what’s next?
MAUSER: I’m asking them to participate in a process to try and stop these people from shooting down so many people And they don’t want to participate. They’re selfish.
BOYLES: Tom! Tom –. Tom, you mean, someone that says, “Gee, I’d like a larger capacity magazine”, somehow is a selfish person?
MAUSER: I’m–. No, I’m saying they’re selfish—
BOYLES: You just said!
MAUSER: — for not being willing to talk about how we reduce the amount of violence in these kinds of shootings.
BOYLES: You–. They–. But–. You–. But that’s –. But, that’s the Arizona situation, that’s the Columbine situation. What happened in Arizona, this guy is so crazy when he’s coming to school, kids are leaving the room. People are afraid of him. They know who he is. And who did anything? How about some probes into individuals, as opposed to taking, universally, everyone who has a gun and condemning them?
MAUSER: I’m not condemning them!
BOYLES: Sure, you are!
MAUSER: No, I’m not. You know, I hear this “there’s this condemning”. This –. These poor gun owners! Come on now, Peter! This isn’t condemning them. It’s saying, “Can we have some reasonable laws in this country so we can reduce the gun violence?” that’s all it’s about.
BOYLES: That you think –! Tom, you –. Tom, what you meant to talk about, Chicago, right now – how many brutal murders are taking place in Chicago. You have never opened your mouth about Chicago, neither have anybody else, because you can’t deal with the fact that it’s black people killing black people. You want to do magazine bans in Chicago?
MAUSER: I want to do magazine bans across the coun – not bans. But I want to do limitations, yes!
BOYLES: Tom! Speak about Chicago! Why is the murder rate so high in Chicago?
MAUSER: Because people are killing people with guns.
BOYLES: Oh, Tom! That’s stupid! Back it up! Why are people killing people in Chicago at this horrible rate, and they’re not doing it in Billings, Montana?
MAUSER: Why are they doing it in Chicago?
BOYLES: And not doing it in Billings.
MAUSER: Because –Because we tend to have more shootings, yes, in the inner city than we do in rural areas.
BOYLES: […]And why — . So, let’s talk about that as opposed to guns.
MAUSER: We can’t write laws specifically exempting rural areas.
BOYLES: Of course you do. You’re doing it! You’re doing it with the state of Colorado right now!
MAUSER: No, we’re not.
BOYLES: Of course you are. You’re talking about Rifle, Colorado, you’re—
MAUSER: No.
BOYLES: Tom, that’s what you’re laws have done, with Hudak
MAUSER: No.
BOYLES: They’re not?
MAUSER: Peter, You’re not –. You started a line of thinking and you didn’t get back to it. I want to go back to Tucson, okay? I want to go to Tucson. Because the guy was dangerous.
BOYLES: Yes.
MAUSER: But the guy was not prohibited from buying a gun.
BOYLES: He got his father’s gun! He didn’t buy a gun! You know it and I know it! He stole a gun from his parents!
MAUSER: So, if —
BOYLES: [shouting] STOP! You can’t say that stuff, Tom, because it’s not true!
MAUSER: What’s not true?
BOYLES: He stole his father’s guns!
MAUSER: Okay.
BOYLES: So he didn’t buy a gun, Tom! You said he bought a gun! He didn’t buy a gun!
MAUSER: He had a gun. He shouldn’t have had a gun.
BOYLES: Geez oh man! Tom, how do you want to do this. Are they Brownshirts? Are they gungrabbers? Who are they?
MAUSER: Who?
BOYLES: You’re enemies.
MAUSER: My enemies?
BOYLES: Yeah. Your enemies. Who are these people that you’re talking about? You’re talking about one guy in one large state, that has plenty of guns, plenty of ammunition, and you’re saying we’re going to change all the laws.
MAUSER: It’s not one guy! Peter, It’s not one guy! We’re losing ten thousand lives to gunshots every year. It’s an outrageous number!
BOYLES: […][Stupid question… Is this ridiculous? when did you stop beating your wife? [mocks Mauser, imitating his laugh]
BOYLES: […] This got heated quick. TomMauser was with us. We have about three or four minutes in the segment. Tom, I’ll just let you speak to the audience. It’s probably the right thing to do. What is it that you want to see happen?
MAUSER: Well, first, let me say, you mentioned that we had sat down and had lunch together, and you had interviewed me before in the past. And that’s true. It was about a dozen years ago. And I’m just wondering what’s happened since then, [chuckling awkwardly as he says this] Peter, because, I mean, you let me speak, you let me— we had reasonable conversations, and now it seems like you’ve gone someplace else.
BOYLES: Well, You said things that weren’t true. That’s what opened this thing up.
MAUSER: Well, and I don’t think – the majority of Americans, a great number of Americans support background checks, and you don’t seem to even support something as basic as that.
BOYLES: Tom—Tom—Tom, I just told you, I do. Now you just tried to set me up with some stupid, ridiculous, blind question and it really angered me, because It insulted my intelligence, as though I would support a criminal buying a gun. And for that alone, that took it to another level. I’m saying to you and we can go back to wherever you’d like to begin with your conversation. But the comments that you claim were made, or you say the things that didn’t happen up there, I guarantee you, they happened. We have pictures of them happening. And so I–.
MAUSER: And I don’t think they should happen, Peter
BOYLES: Well, that’s not what – Tom! Shoulda Woulda Coulda means nothing – they did!
MAUSER: That shouldn’t happen
BOYLES: I’m on your side. But you’re friends and colleagues blocked people from getting out of cars.
MAUSER: I heard case of one – of one case of that happening
BOYLES: No, there was more, Tom! Please.
MAUSER: Why would we stop people from doing something that [inaudible] as that.
BOYLES: I don’t know,. Because you know damn well that you’re candidate, Evie Hudak, has a real good chance of joining Giron and Morse in the trash heap of history.
MAUSER: Because there is a number of people that want there to be a perpetual election cycle.
BOYLES: Oh, come on!
BOYLES: […][ARGUING LOUDLY} […]No because you’re not going to to that!
MAUSER: Why do keep interrupting?
BOYLES: Don’t hand me that crap about people wanting constant reelection cycles. Tom, that was the first time. It was the win. Quit it! Don’t turn – don’t say things that arent’ true! You’ve done it since you came on the show!
MAUSER: Now that they were successful […] now let’s go after somebody else.
BOYLES: But that’s not what you said!
MAUSER: Perpetual election cycle.
BOYLES: […] It only happened once
MAUSER: But that’s just a start, Peter. And it obviously was just a start, because now we’re doing it again.
BOYLES: Then that should scare the hell out of you. Because your candidates are getting picked off.
BOYLES: […] Tommy, tommy! Down in the Springs–.
MAUSER: My name is Tom, not Tommy, Peter. Okay?[…]
BOYLES: Tom-as, they had $500,000! Your friend—your friends–.
MAUSER: You know, the pro-gun people like to – a lot of them on their websites, call me Tommy. My name is Tom, and you know it!
BOYLES: Tom, your friend sent $3,000,000 in here to defeat the recall election. Those people had less than half a million dollars and it was their own money. So talk about this big money thing.
MAUSER: You’re saying there was not Koch brothers money involved and no NRA money involved?
BOYLES: You know what you’ve turned into? You’ve turned into one of those people I can’t speak to anymore because you keep coming up with things that arent’ true! […]
BOYLES: Tom, this is stupid! You know, we’ve hit a logger point
MAUSER: You won’t answer the question!
BOYLES: Of course the NRA was in, but they were in late, and many, many, many people involved in the recall were members of the NRA. Are you a citizen of New York? […] [puts Mauser on hole and says come back to the studio and bring Hudak with you]
[IN HOUR 3:]
BOYLES: […]Before we go to the recall folks, and we had quite a knockdown, drag out with tom Mauser this morning[…]
BOYLES: […] Please say good morning to Laura waters is with us and Mike mcAlpine is with us, these are the folks who are involved in the Evie Hudak recall. And Evie is –We invited Evie on the radio show this morning. Did you happen to hear Tom Mauser this morning
ORGANIZER OF RECALL HUDAK, TOO CAMPAIGN, MIKE McALPINE: I heard a little bit, Peter.
BOYLES: Yeah, I mean, he has said, and he has been up there protesting the petition gatherers, which is certainly all first Amendment stuff. But, First of all, I need to make this clear, because I was making it clear to him, the word “brownshirt” was never used by you and “goon” was never used by you. And his first accusation was you said those things. And I said no, that you had not said those things. That in fact, the word “goon” was me, and I think a caller – when we were naming the crew of people to help, and somebody used “brownshirt”, but it certainly wasn’t you.
ORGANIZER OF RECALL HUDAK, TOO CAMPAIGN, LAURA WATERS: Thank you for that clarification. It wasn’t.
BOYLES: And he came in loaded for bear {?} to talk about “brownshirt” And I said, “First things first. I said ‘goon’ and ‘brownshirt’ was made by a listener.” And I asked him to make an apology to you, and it took a couple of minutes. So, for clarification, Mr. Mauser suggests that none of this was true, that there was nobody blocking people from getting out of cars, and none of that happened. Would you like to go on the record and talk about what has happened?
McALPINE: Well I’ll run in with that one. Peter, You’ve got it on your own website—links to it, and we’ve got it on our own website — photos. You know, that’s the truth,right there. And we have discussed this before, to say that these people are not getting in the way of other people’s first amendment rights, is simply a falsehood. And you can wish, and claim, and project as much as you want. The truth is right there for everybody to see.
BOYLES: Yeah. Laura, would you like to add to that?
WATERS: I can just echo, I think, what Mike said […] [some observe limitations, some don’t]
BOYLES: They pick their targets. […] They don’t block Bubba from getting out of the truck
McALPINE: The part that breaks my heart the most is when they go after older people, and you know, these are often times veterans, people who have gone to great effort because they can’t move like they once did. To come down, and to watch them be yelled and screamed at. […] they want to bully them.
