Station:    KHOW, 630 am

Show:       Ross Kaminsky Show

Guests:    Gardner, Cory

Link:        https://khow.iheart.com/featured/ross-kaminsky/content/2019-09-24-senator-cory-gardner-on-iran-n-korea-the-whistleblower-and-2020/

Date:       September 24, 2019

Topics:     Whistleblower Complaint, Ukraine, 2020 Elections, John Hickenlooper, Libby Szabo, US Senate Race in Colorado, US Senate Republican Majority, Economy, Wage Growth, Jobs, Regulation Reform, Space Command, Bureau of Land Management Headquarters, Grand Junction, Colorado Springs, BLM, Colorado National Monument, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Gaza, Proxies, Sponsor of Terrorism, Israel, Yemen, North Korea, China, Kim Jong Un, Maximum Pressure, Slave Labor, United Nations Resolution,

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HOST ROSS KAMINSKY [00:00:03] [I am] so pleased to welcome back to the Ross Kaminsky Show Colorado Senator Cory Gardner, Republican of Yuma, Colorado. Good morning, Cory. Thanks for being with us.

UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM COLORADO, CORY GARDNER [00:00:12] Good morning. Thanks for having me.

KAMINSKY [00:00:13] Hey, I’ve got a big range of topics I want to try to get through with you today. We’ll start with foreign policy, because I know you’re very into foreign policy. Let’s start with Iran. What do you make of the last couple of weeks? What do you make of the the tensions there? And in particular, what do you see as the appropriate U.S. role today?

GARDNER [00:00:35] Well, I think you can tell that our sanctions against Iran are working. It’s creating a significant impact for the radical regime in Iran. And so they do — they are doing what they have continued to do throughout this regime’s history, which is to — you know — use terror, use proxies, use sort of violence to try to exert their influence and will while they also–.  That’s on the one hand. And then on the other hand, they’re trying to pursue diplomacy and using that as a tacit way to say, “Hey, give us this loan guarantee, or give us this break, and maybe all this other stuff will just go away.”, And so you know, they’re trying to have it both ways right now and that’s pretty dangerous.

KAMINSKY [00:01:18] And what do you see as an appropriate U.S. role at this point?

GARDNER [00:01:21] Well, if you look at where we’re at in the Middle East and the instability that they could create, the disruptions they could attempt to create throughout the global energy supplies, but also just look what would happen to our great ally Israel if we see a further implosion of stability in the Middle East, if Saudi Arabia were to continue down the wrong direction because of the Yemen conflict or Iranian influence within Saudi Arabia. Look at what would happen if Iran continues in Syria to destabilize, and Lebanon and the funding of proxies through Lebanon and Gaza. And so, U.S. interests are very much at stake, and that’s not even getting into what’s happening in Afghanistan and Iraq. U.S. interests are very much at stake, U.S. personnel. And we know that Iran has killed thousands and thousands of Americans. And you know, this is very much something that the United States has to continue to lead on.

KAMINSKY [00:02:14] But does that mean that there’s anything you understand right now about Iran that would cause you to support American boots on the ground in a leading kind of way? Like, I could understand, maybe, an adviser or two behind the scenes. But in a visible kind of way — American boots on the ground, do you see that?

GARDNER [00:02:33] What the United States–. No, and what the United States needs to do is to continue to build strength within the allies of the Middle East, you know, the Gulf states, the countries — Saudi Arabia — and they need to show leadership. They need to step up to the plate and push back against this regional aggressor. And of course United States continues to defend ourselves from terror threats, both coming out of Iran and other places in the Middle East. And that’s our interest.

KAMINSKY [00:02:59] And speaking of threats, what lessons do you take from those drone attacks, as far as the importance of hardening our own infrastructure here in the United States?

GARDNER [00:03:13] That’s a very good question, Ross. And it’s something that I am looking at right now. You know, we’ve been focusing on things like EMPs and other cyber threats, to harden our facilities from either cyber attacks or from other kinds of terrorist attacks. But I think what we’ve seen with this drone attack on the Saudi Arabia oil facility is a need to make sure we understand exactly where our critical infrastructure sits, how it’s vulnerable to an attack from some kind of a sophisticated drone operation, and make sure that we don’t have that kind of vulnerability linger. Because, you know, they can launch — you can launch a drone. You don’t have to sit in the same state and launch a drone. I mean, you can do that from many, many places and direct that through. And you can see what damage this did to the Saudi oil infrastructure. If that were to happen here. It would create a significant amount of damage.

KAMINSKY [00:04:06] Speaking of significant damage it’s kind of interesting to see that the U.S. stock market in particular, on the day after the attack in Saudi Arabia, was only down a little bit. And then it was up the next day.  And the market kind of yawned. And I think part of that is due to the U.S. being, not quite self-sufficient but more than we used to be, in terms of energy. So, when you talk about risk, what about the risk posed by the Green New Deal, and Democrats’ plans to ban fracking, and things like that?

GARDNER [00:04:40] Ross! This is a hugely important point! And I don’t think you can underestimate the importance of this point or discount the importance of this point, [it would] probably better to say. Look at 2005. In 2005, the United States — this is sort of on the leading edge of the — the front edge of the shale revolution and hydraulic fracturing in the United States. And we were importing two-thirds of our oil. Now, you fast forward to 2019.  We’re an exporting country right now. And you see this attack on Saudi Arabia that disrupted half of Saudi’s oil supplies, 6% of global supplies. And you’re right, it was a blip. Imagine what this would have done to our country if we did not have the kind of production that we have today. And you have people like Elizabeth Warren, people like Bernie Sanders,–heck! — people in Colorado saying we should ban hydraulic fracturing. [According to these people,] we should not only ban hydraulic fracturing, they just want to ban the fuel production overall. Imagine the damage that would have done economically to the United States, to Colorado, and around the globe. It would have been economic carnage, the kind of which we hadn’t seen in a very long time.

KAMINSKY [00:05:46] Let me ask you one last foreign policy question. North Korea has been mostly out of the news for a couple of months, here. But as far as I can tell, in the U.S. Senate, you are one of the guys who has been thinking about and worrying about North Korea longer than anybody, had your finger on the pulse of that longer than anybody. What are you seeing out of North Korea in the past couple of months, in your own ongoing research?

GARDNER [00:06:13] Yeah, so, when the Defense Authorization Act passed out of the Senate a couple of months ago, I led a another measure to increase sanctions on the North Korean regime, particularly focused on some of their banking activities and finances. So that was passed out of the Senate. Now it’s got to be through conference and eventually signed into law. So, we continue to clamp down on the sanctions regime, and make sure that we’re putting in place maximum pressure. I spoke to Steve Biegun, who is our North Korea special representative working on these negotiations — just last week I spoke to him. And I continue to be concerned that we’re not putting enough pressure on China. I continue to be concerned though we’re not putting enough pressure on those who are aiding and abetting the North Korean regime. We have a big inflection point coming up with the deadline for all countries who had received — basically — the slave labor coming out of North Korea to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions and send them back to North Korea, so that they’re not propping the regime up with the wages that they’re paying these basic slave laborers. And so, you know, there’s a lot of big challenges remaining. And Kim Jong Un knows there’s an election coming up. And so together, it makes me worry very much that we have to continue putting the pressure on North Korea.

KAMINSKY [00:07:32] When you say Kim Jong Un knows there’s an election coming up, you mean here in the United States.

GARDNER [00:07:36] Yes, correct. Obviously!

KAMINSKY [00:07:39] Yeah, right! Exactly. Not that he, you know, really has the ability to influence the election, but if he did, do you think he would be trying to help Trump, trying to hurt Trump? What  — how do you think he views Trump, at this point?

GARDNER [00:07:53] You know, obviously, I think what — they could try to influence the election. They could try, obviously, with a cyber attack to undermine the integrity of the election. But I guess I was referring to the fact that they would wait Trump out and just try to wait and see what happens during the 2020 election. Maybe they’d get a new president, maybe they wouldn’t. But maybe they’re willing to hedge their bets and see what a new administration would bring, because it buys them more time. And in the meantime, they can develop more and more technologies before —  you know, as long as we don’t have inspectors there, who knows what they’re doing? And that’s the dangerous element.

KAMINSKY [00:08:26] Right, that makes sense. And I think that kind of strategy — see[ing] if you can wait through the next election and somebody other than Trump wins — I think that’s in the minds of many foreign leaders, allies and opponents alike. Let’s bring this to domestic issues, now. I do want to ask you about this whole, quote/unquote, “whistleblower” thing going on, because this is leading the news everywhere. In my mind, it’s a special kind of bone-headedness, for a guy who’s just been through three years of what Trump went through, being accused of, quote/unquote, “collusion” with an Eastern European government, to then go ask an Eastern European leader to do something that involves our election. But I think, really, the big question that this might — kind of the linchpin, here, is whether there was some kind of direct quid pro quo regarding money or military aid.

GARDNER [00:09:17] Well, I think what has to happen is, step back from the politicization of this — [the politicization] that you’ve already seen rampant on the headlines. And get the information. I think that is simply what we have to do, follow the process of the Intel Committee which is in an effort right now to get the information, to hold a hearing, and to have a briefing. And I think that’s the kind of thing that we need to do — to get the information — because this is serious, and that’s why it should be taken seriously, and not just in the context of an election.

KAMINSKY [00:09:48] I mean, how serious is it, in your mind?

GARDNER [00:09:51] Well, we have to get the information. I mean, there have been miscellaneous reports about whether the whistleblower was actually on the call, or in the call, or whether he was — whether he or she was receiving this information through a read-out which many, many other people got. So, I’m not going to speculate. But what I do think we need to do is follow the law, follow the process, and make sure that we get the information.

KAMINSKY [00:10:13] A little bit later in the show, I’m going to have Secretary of the Interior, David Bernhardt, on with me.I wanted you to just tell us, briefly, your thoughts on moving BLM headquarters to Colorado.

GARDNER [00:10:27] It’s an exciting development for Colorado. Grand Junction, in particular, can now say that they are the gateway to our public lands across the nation. This will be — it’s going to result in better decision making with these policymakers who are impacting the lives of many, many Coloradans and Westerners all over the place. They’re going to live in the communities that they regulate. They’re going to be able to look out their window — I mean, I’ve seen the office building. If you’ve ever been to Grand Junction if you’re driven by the airport you’ve all seen the office building. You can look out of the window and see Colorado National Monument, you can see the Book Cliffs, which are a BLM-managed lands. And so, instead of looking out at the bureaucrats and the special interests in Washington, they can look out at their jobs, right out the window.

KAMINSKY [00:11:13] And the last thing I want to ask you about — and our special guest [is] Senator Cory Gardner, for those of you just joining the show. Looking ahead to the 2020 election, well, let’s start with the macro. What do you see right now as the overall environment for the 2020 election, especially as regards Republican chances?

GARDNER [00:11:33] Well, if you look at where we are in the Republican majority we got a number of people who are defending their seats. But a lot of these are good seats. They’re strong members who’ve done a great job over the last several years and so I feel confident that they they can go on and win their election. I feel confident this country is going to look at the economy, and note the progress that we’ve made. Real household income — I think average income has increased by $5,000 dollars since 2017. That’s a combination of tax cuts and wage growth. We’ve seen real wage growth increase. We’ve seen it in Colorado, with several counties leading the country in terms of wage growth. We’ve seen the regulatory reforms result in greater businesses. And so, I think my colleagues look like they’re in great shape. And I’m confident, going into Colorado — which is always a tough election, and I don’t think I ever want to downplay that — but I’m confident that we can take our record of accomplishments and solutions across the state of Colorado and win. Because we have fought hard. Whether it’s the BLM headquarters in Grand Junction, or Space Command in Colorado Springs, a growing economy, jobs being created, less regulations on the backs of businesses, this is good for the state and the country.

KAMINSKY [00:12:37] As far as your own particular election, does the entrance — a couple weeks back, I guess — of John Hickenlooper into the race on the Democratic side change anything important for you?

GARDNER [00:12:50] Well, you know, he’s changed his mind many times. We’ll see if he ends up running for county commissioner next. But I just take him at his word, Ross:  he’s not cut out to be in the Senate.

KAMINSKY [00:13:00] [laughing] You must have seen that that piece in The Onion that talked about him–.

GARDNER [00:13:03] I did. [laughs] I did. I warned Libby Szabo — I told Libby Szabo — Commissioner Szabothat — that I think she’ll take him. It’s fine.

KAMINSKY [00:13:13] [sustained laughter[.  All right, Senator Cory Gardner, thanks for making me laugh first thing in the morning. I appreciate it, as always. [I’m] looking forward to seeing you back here in Colorado in the not too distant future.

GARDNER [00:13:25] Hey, Ross, thanks for having me! Take care. Thanks