AM Colorado, Wayne Williams, August 2, 2013

Station:     KFKA, 1310 AM

Show:        AM Colorado

Guests:     Williams, W.


Date:         August 2, 2013

Topics:      House Bill 1303, Voter Modernization Bill, Voter Access Bill, Senator Morse, Senator Giron, Recall Elections, District Attorney, Dan May, Prosecutor, Voter Fraud, Residency Requirements, Senate District 11, Mortgage Application, Gypsy Voting, Home Loan, Legal residence.

Click Here for Audio



HOST TOM LUCERO:  And joining us on the phone, right now, is El Paso County Clerk and Recorder to talk about this very real issue of gypsy voting, how it could influence the election, and really what they intend on doing.  And El Paso County Clerk and Recorder, Mr. Wayne Williams on the phone with us this morning.  Wayne, how are you this morning?

EL PASO COUNTY CLERK AND RECORDER WAYNE WILLIAMS:  I’m doing great!  Thanks for the invitation to join you this morning.

HOST DEVON LENTZ:  Thank you for being here.  So, I did live in Senate District 11 for a couple of years, and as much as I enjoy the city of Fort Collins, I would really like to cast a ballot in the upcoming election on the 10th of September.  So, if I just drive down there and show my intent to move back to Senate 11, everything’s okay and I can cast a ballot?

WILLIAMS:  Well, we’re going to try to examine some things.  So, one of the things you’re going to have to do is have an address in Senate 11, and then you’ll have to say under oath that you intend to claim that address as your sole legal place of residence and in so doing, abandon claim to any other legal residentce.  And if those two criteria are met, then indeed you’ll be able to vote.  Now, what I’m concerned about in that process, then, is if someone lies.  And we worked very closely with our District Attorney’s office down here, and intend to prosecute anyone who does.

LUCERO:  But that’s kind of ‘lucy goosey’ there, Wayne.  How do you define “lie”?  If Devon goes down there and declares here intent , and has all of the best intentions of moving into, you know, [hypothetically] 123 Park Avenue, down in Senate District 11 and she can say under oath she has the best of intentions to move in there and fully intends on, and then after the fact, she could very easily come back and say, “You know what?  We didn’t qualify for the loan.  The deal fell through.  We didn’t get the job.”  Et cetera, et cetera.  You can go through any list of reasons why she ultimately didn’t move.

WILLIAMS:  Well, and I think that’s one of the issues you will get into when you attempt to prosecute.  And certainly, if, to use the two examples you just cited, Tom, — if someone has a mortgage application and then a denial, that’s going to look a little stronger than – and my guess is, in that case, the District Attorney would probably not proceed with prosecution.

LENTZ:  So, if I go down there, and I’m driving around.  I see this house for sale, grab one of the brochures off the sign, and walk in and say, “I intend to move to this address,” and I cast my ballot.  And then you go and find out I never put my house on the market, I never had any kind of a loan, nothing.

WILLIAMS:  And that is a clear case of a breach of the law –

LENTZ:  Okay, right.

WILLIAMS:  –and we will work to prosecute you.  And our Secretary of State – we’ve been in close contact with Scott Gessler on these issues, and they have indicated [that] they intend to promulgate a rule that will make it absolutely clear that you must actually be living at the location at the time.  And so simply grabbing a brochure from a home that’s for sale will be insufficient, and that will not serve to protect you from prosecution.

LUCERO:  Joining us on the phone, right now, El Paso County Clerk and Recorder Wayne Williams talking about the issue of gypsy voting and how it could potentially influence the September 10th recall elections of Senators Morse and Giron.  All right, Wayne, so talk to us now about how do we find out?  How do we discover whether or not Devon was actually trying to gypsy vote, and trying to defraud the citizens of their rights in Senate District 11.  What processes are you going to utilize after September 11th?

WILLIAMS:  Well, and this is one of the things that we, in El Paso County, are concerned about, because we want to make sure that it’s the citizens of Senate District 11 who get to make that decision.  And so, what we will do is when mail goes out to that voter at the new address they have given, we will – and it bounces back, at that point, we will investigate.  And heres’ – the concern with this law, frankly, and the reason I testified against some of these provisions, is that it shifts from a ‘prevent vote fraud’ to a ‘prosecute it afterwards.’  And that means, in some cases, the election may be tainted because all you do is prosecute the person afterwards as opposed to prevent them from voting it at the time.  And that’s a risk.  And what we hope to do is to send the message very clearly, that if you do this in El Paso County, we will prosecute.  Our District Attorney will prosecute.  And so, don’t do it!  And, you know, we had a similar thing with respect to looting and fires.  And so, we had a fire a year ago.   Our District Attorney prosecuted and I think the people got about forty years in jail.  And that served as a pretty effective deterrent the next time there was a fire, recognizing that if you do that, we’re going to prosecute and we take it seriously.  And we want to do the same thing with respect to gypsy voting or any other type of voting that is against the law and against the intent of having the residents of the senate district make the decision and not people from the outside.

LENTZ:  Okay, but if I’m understanding correctly, because this is going to take effect after ballots are cast, so you know, let’s take Denver – residents in Denver.  Let’s say ninety percent of them are Democrats, all bused down to El Paso County, cast their ballots in Senate District 11, but it’s enough to swing the vote, and Morse gets to stay.  You go back and you try and prosecute these individuals, does that remove Morse from office, if that many votes were cast that shouldn’t have been?

WILLIAMS:  No, it doesn’t.  And that’s the problem with [House Bill] 1303, which is the bill shoved through the legislature on a party line vote this last time.  It doesn’t prevent the person illegally elected from taking office.  All it does is allow you to prosecute the folks who did it.

LUCERO:  Well, and Wayne, let’s take a time out and a step back.  Let’s – because you keep referencing the bill that passed the legislature.  Let’s revisit that, because we tried to cover so many of the bills this legislative session, it seemed like a lot of our time was consumed on the gun bills and in particular we had some ag bills that were really impacting us up in northern Colorado.  We just touched lightly on the election bill that you’re talking about that included no input from the Secretary of State while the bill was being drafted.

WILLIAMS:  Uh, yeah, it was pushed through as a late bill, as an emergency bill, claiming that there was an emergency that needed to be addressed.  There wasn’t.  El Paso County and the state of Colorado had some of the highest voter turnout in the country this last election.  There was certainly no need for the bill.  And what it does is it allows Same Day Registration.  And we actually put out a YouTube video out on our website – ‘’– [correcting] ‘’ for clerk and recorder, and on that video we show that under this bill, that a dishonest person would be able to go from place to place, registering and voting at each location.  Now, we hope to prosecute them afterwards, but the challenge is unscrupulous people can taint an election and perhaps throw it one way or the other.

LUCERO:  [laughing] It just absolutely boggles and baffles the mind.  Well, Wayne, we appreciate the time, and we’ll look to check back with you after September 10th and just see where we go at this point in time, because it really is going to be dependent on you and the District Attorney doing the follow up work and possibly prosecuting individuals who try and game the system.  And we know with the outside influence of Mayor Michael Bloomberg and some other individuals, that they’re going to want to do everything in their power to make sure Senator Morse is safely protected and not recalled.

WILLIAMS:  Well, I appreciate the chance to chat with you about it, and obviously, we do take these issues seriously.  And in El Paso County, Devon if you want to live here, you better intend to abandon your claim to any other legal residence, if you want to do it.

LUCERO:  [Laughs.]

LENTZ:  You know, after spending my 10 years in Colorado Springs — really enjoyed it – I am going to stay in Fort Collins.  [Laughs.]

LUCERO & WILLIAMS:  [laughing]

LENTZ:  I don’t like the City Council, at all.   I’m not a big fan of my state Rep, but you know, I do like living in Northern Colorado.  So, I’m not going to go down there and cast my ballot against Senator Morse, because I just don’t want to be prosecuted. [Laughs.]

WILLIAMS:  [Laughter]

LENTZ:  So, I’ll pass.

WILLIAMS:  Well, I love northern Colorado as well, and I hope you all have a wonderful day today.

Excellent!  Thanks so much, Wayne.

WILLIAMS:  Thanks!  Bye.