Dan Caplis Show, Wayne Williams, July 6, 2017

Station:    KNUS, 710 am

Show:       Dan Caplis Show

Guests:    Williams, Wayne

Link:       http://dancaplis.podbean.com/

Date:        July 6, 2017


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HOST DAN CAPLIS: So, we’ll go to the VIP line, then we’ll come back to the North Korea issue. Colorado’s superb Secretary of State, Wayne Williams, kind enough to join us on 710 KNUS. How are you doing, Wayne?


CAPLIS: Good!  Kind of an odd day, isn’t it? It’s a Monday on a Wednesday and then everybody has got to gear up because there are only a couple of days left in the week, but nobody wants to gear up because, hey, you know, you get used to being off. It’s a beautiful thing. How are things at your office? Did everybody show up? Is it a full work day for you guys?

WILLIAMS:  [It is a] Full work day. We’ve got a great team of folks who are here trying to deal with all the fun, exciting issues — making business filings easy, and making sure that folks can register, and do whatever needs to be done.

CAPLIS: Well, I know it’s not sexy, but you guys do a great job with it.  We’re on on your site all the time in connection with our law practice. But let me ask you about this issue now, and I know we have some sound – some national sound — of you on this, as well, as you did at least one national show. But the President requesting information from the states — please just bring people up to date, because this has been rolling out over a holiday weekend, what the president wants from Colorado and whether Colorado is going to give it to him.

WILLIAMS:  Sure. There are eight different things that are requested. The first seven of those are seeking input for the presidential advisory commission. Those include, like, how can the federal government better support states and cybersecurity. Colorado, for example, is going to respond to those seven questions on the cybersecurity issue. One of the important things that we’re to point out is that when there is a breach at a local level it’s important for the state to be aware of that.  And, uh, in the past they did not let states know if there is a local breach. So, that’s the first seven. The eighth request is for a copy of the publicly available voter data roll, with certain information in it, and again, saying, “if publicly available”. So, they’ve asked for information, some of which, under Colorado law, is publicly available to anyone who requests it [and] some of which is not. And their request was very specific, saying that you – they’re not asking anyone to not follow the state law. Colorado is not providing confidential information. We are very clear in that. That’s what our processes are, and that’s true for anyone who makes a request. Colorado will provide, — just like we do to every organization from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party to MoveOn.org. — we will provide the information that everybody can obtain.

CAPLIS: So, what do you consider “confidential”? I assume Social Security numbers?

WILLIAMS:  Social Security numbers are absolutely confidential, not — and they will not be produced. Driver’s license numbers are confidential, will not be produced. Those were not even asked – the drivers licenses were not even asked for. Let’s see. Your date of birth is confidential, and is not going to be provided.


WILLIAMS:  There is some information that is public, and that is your name, your address, your year of birth, and whether you voted in particular elections — not how you voted, because we don’t even have that information. Because we don’t know how somebody voted.

CAPLIS: Right. But your party affiliation?

WILLIAMS:  Your party affiliation is public and you and every candidate who has ever run a credible campaign gets that information, uses that to contact people. For example, if you’re running in a primary, you contact people who vote in your party’s primary. And so, you send them mail, you knock on their doors. And so, that’s information that is public and Colorado law doesn’t allow the Secretary of State to say, “Well, I don’t like that person, so I’m not giving them the public information,” or doesn’t allow you to say, “I’m just going to give to the people of one party or another.”

CAPLIS: And, Mr. Secretary, let me ask you this: I mean, the information that the Trump administration wants, what do you think their end game is? How do you think they intend to use that information to try to determine how much illegal voting there is?

WILLIAMS:  You know, the information they requested isn’t going to enable anyone to say, “Well, someone voted more than once,” because it doesn’t have enough information to do that. So, I’m not sure what their particular purpose is. Colorado law doesn’t allow me to make decisions as to whether to give it to someone based on whether I like their purpose or not. It says, “This information is publicly available.” You know, obviously, I have got a name –“Wayne Williams” — which is not exactly an obscure name, either. [There are ] lots of people with the name Wayne Williams.

CAPLIS: Sure. Sure.

WILLIAMS:  In fact, in Colorado Springs there was another Wayne Williams registered to vote who was born the same year I was born.

CAPLIS: Hopefully a Republican.

WILLIAMS:  I don’t even remember that part!

CAPLIS: Yeah. Yeah.

WILLIAMS:  I just remember looking at his registration, saying, — [laughs]

CAPLIS: And tell me, Wayne, how much illegal voting do you think there is in Colorado?

WILLIAMS:  You know, there is some. Uh, it’s not widespread. We work hard to prevent it. We prosecute when it occurs. We are currently investigating, with respect to the 2016 election,– obviously, you’re aware that former state party chairman has been charged with respect to voting his wife’s ballot.

CAPLIS: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

WILLIAMS:  There are – in Colorado there is a process where ballots, when they’re turned in, we compare the signatures.

CAPLIS: Mm-hmm.

WILLIAMS:  And there were 21,000 instances in Colorado in the last cycle that had a ballot turned in without a matching signature or with no signature or with no required ID. And that’s the number after the eight day cure period. And that’s until eight days after the election. Now, some of those, Dan, were just people who just never bothered to respond. Some of those were likely attempts to turn in the ballot for somebody else. But those ballots were not counted in Colorado because our process prevents that. That process, by the way, is a bipartisan process. It takes both a Democrat and a Republican reviewing it to say, “Yes, it does not match,” and to have to agree that it does not match.

CAPLIS: Secretary of State Wayne Williams, our guest. Hey, two quick things: that former party chair you referred to, I assume that’s the Steve Curtis case, for those listeners who may not be up on it. Any idea where that’s at in the process? And I was sad to hear that, because Steve had been a guest and I like Steve, but he’s charged with voting his wife’s ballot. And at that point. I wonder how many husbands and wives across the state sort of ducked under the pillow and said, “I didn’t know that was a crime.”  But, any idea where that’s at in the process?

WILLIAMS:  I’m not sure where it’s at in the process. You know, once we turn things over to local law enforcement, we typically let them handle the issues, because they’re the experts in terms of a criminal investigation. And, as I said, he has been charged. I am sad whenever anyone tries to violate the law in Colorado because, you know, we work hard to make that so that voters can have confidence in the elections process.

CAPLIS: You know, what people really want to know, Wayne, is why is “Bad to the Bone” your ringtone? What’s the story behind that?

WILLIAMS:  [hearty laughter]  One of the options that the Apple iPhone has.

CAPLIS: Yeah, but they have 23 other options, Wayne. I mean, somebody had to choose that option for a reason. We want to know!

WILLIAMS:  You know, I think the piano riff is kind of fun!

CAPLIS: Oh, it is! It’s well done. Hey, final question, my friend: I think most people have a sense that overall elections are fairly clean, but there may be some pockets of voter fraud in enough numbers that it could affect the outcome, at least, you know, in statewide and/or local races. But is there — the way it’s set up in in Colorado and across the country with so much of this being done county to county – is there any opportunity, if a county, say, is in the hands of – and of course, my own bias would be — in the hands of lefties, and they have a lefty County Clerk and Recorder etc., is there an opportunity there for fraud on a large enough level to affect close outcomes if they want to go that direction?

WILLIAMS:  So, first, I believe that each of Colorado’s 64 County Clerk and Recorders work very hard to ensure the integrity of the election. And that’s true regardless of their party. But second, we don’t rely on just a clerk because both parties have the opportunity, regardless of who is clerk, to have election judges present and appointed. And so, one of the protections that Colorado has is we actually put election judges from the opposite party of the clerk, with the clerk, in there, to assure that there is a proper process in place. We also, of course, in Colorado and under regulations I have adopted, provide for watchers to observe the process as well. So there are a number of things that Colorado does to reinforce the integrity of the elections process

CAPLIS: And I have no doubt you’re doing everything that can possibly be done. But if — what are you on the lookout for, if somebody sophisticated was going to try to cheat, you know, what would that look like? What gaps are there?

WILLIAMS:  There are a few gaps, and we work with the legislature to address those. For example, we have started — under new laws adopted by the legislature with our support – we’ll now be checking the signatures on petitions for candidates, something that was not done under prior law.

CAPLIS: Right.

WILLIAMS:  So, we are taking a number of steps to make improvements. You know, one of the other things that I articulated on a number of occasions but have not been able to succeed in getting the legislature to adopt, is to require photo identification. Because photo ID is free in Colorado–

CAPLIS: Isn’t that insane?

WILLIAMS:  –if you’re indigent or if you’re elderly, it’s free in the state. I think it’s one of the improvements we could make. But we’re trying to make it as best as we can with the resources we have available. But I appreciate your comments and for having me on.

CAPLIS: Yeah. Yeah. And it seems – well, and I appreciate you being here, and I know we’ve extend the time out. But one final question: tell me if this is unfair. It seems to me, anybody who opposes the requirement of photo ID for voting is inviting fraud, that they must feel that fraud would somehow work in their benefit. I mean, I need a photo ID at this point with cash.  What good reason is there to oppose a photo ID requirement?

WILLIAMS:  The argument that’s articulated is that, well, there may be someone who forgot their ID or doesn’t have it or can’t get it. And so, it is one of the reasons why Colorado’s law that makes photo ID free for individuals who are indigent or elderly is an important part of that process.

CAPLIS: Yeah. Well, keep up the good work, Wayne! [I] appreciate the time today.

WILLIAMS:  Thanks, Dan!  Have a great day!

CAPLIS: Thank you, my friend! You, too!

CAPLIS: 303-696-1971, the number.  Am I missing something there, Casey?  I – yeah – it just doesn’t make any sense to me. Photo ID is required with everything, especially post-9/11. So it seems to me, when you have people out there screaming, “Oh, that’s racist! That’s this! That’s that!,” those must be people betthing on there being fraud that will work in the favor of their party.